This is the one where we keep rolling through the HOLY-Days! We talk about the idea that Christmas is not the end of the Holidays in the Church! We talk about Epiphany, Three Kings Day, Ash Wednesday, and even throw back to All Saints Day and All Hallows Eve! We talk about what it means to be shaped by the Church Calendar throughout the entire year…

We are dropping this one on Christmas because it is all about the whole reason we celebrate Christmas: God in the Flesh! We talk about why this understanding is SO important and why it matters that Jesus became ONE of US!

This is the one where Michael and Nate begin a series called the Holiday Specials! (No, we are not part of the "War on Christmas," the word literally means "Holy Days!") It is the one where we talk about what the season of Advent is, where we talk about learning to lament during a season of joy, where we talk about longing and waiting (which we are…

This is the one where we are about to host our "5th Sunday Serve" at our respective churches. It gets us talking about the role of service in the life of the local church. It's the one where we talk about the sacrificial nature of Love, and where we discuss the fact that worship is much more than singing and preaching, but involves every aspect of …

This is the one where we talk about that word we only use in church, "Fellowship." We talk about why fellowship is so important and why we tend to invest time and energy in things like coffee bars in the lobby and the "all church potluck!" We also talk about the courage it takes to be open to other people, and to bring something that even might me …

In this episode, we talk about two parts of the service, the invocation and benediction. This is one about what those words even mean, and why they matter. It's the one where we think about whether it is actually possible to invoke the presence of God, and where we talk about being sent out into the world. Finally, it's the one where we talk about …

This is the one where we talk about the church and money. It's the one where we talk about the idea of giving and why it is part of the church worship service rather than fundraisers being outside the worship time. It's the one where we are honest about how church giving affects us directly, where we talk about words like tithes and offering, and w…

This is the one where we get to do the podcast LIVE from Lake Tahoe. It is the one where we are together with other pastors at a sermon planning retreat. It's the one where we welcome our friends Joe and JJ onto the podcast to talk about one of the things that we do in church that all four of us do each Sunday- preach! Ultimately, it is the one whe…

In this episode, Michael and Nate have just spent the weekend together at Tyler's graduation. It's the one where Michael is finally able to just sit in a worship service and take it all in, which inspires our conversation about why we pray at altars. It's the one where we talk about remembrance, where we talk about the importance of body posture, w…

This is the one where we talk about all the singing that is done in Church. It's the one where we talk about the nature of worship music and how it shapes up as a congregation. It's the one where we talk about making a joyful noise, or maybe sometimes not so joyful. Ultimately, it is the one where we talk about the power of music in our lives!…

This is the one where we talk about the importance of gathering together. It is the one where we lament the fact that COVID did not allow for us to do so as often as we would have liked. This is the one where we talk about gathering spaces as sacred spaces. It's the one where we even address the dreaded handshaking time and the tradition of "passin…

This is the one that kicks of our new season about "Things We Do in Church." It's the one where we catch up after a brief hiatus from podcasting. It's ultimately the one where we look at this somewhat strange and yet beautiful meal we call "communion" or "the eucharist!"

This is the one where we are finally back together after a bit. It's the one where Michael asks some Nate some rapid-fire questions which leads to a discussion about competition and how we reconcile the gospel that calls us to lay our lives down with our competitive nature. Ultimately, it's the one where we choose to live in the tension between hea…

This is the episode about Michael's daughter and Nate's son getting married! It's the one where we talk about the great cloud of witnesses in this community we call the Church! We thought we would republish it and see if we could get it published on apple this time! (For some reason the last one never showed up!)…

This is the one where we reflect on our kids recent wedding festivities. We talk about the day the was, what went well and even what didn't. We give our perspective on the big day, which causes us to be extremely grateful for all the good things God has brought into our lives and the web of relationships and support system that surrounded our kids …

This is the one where we haven't talked to each other in 13 weeks. It's the one where we talk about Nate's lessons from sabbatical, where Michael is examining his core values, where our kids are still getting married this summer, and where we talk for a long time because we haven't gotten to do this in a while. It's ultimately the one where we find…

This is the one that you've been waiting for! It's the one where we talk about marriage, and specifically the fact that Tyler Cook and Maggie Pigg are getting married. It's the one where we wonder how we looked so young and yet felt so mature when WE got married to our wives, and where we celebrate the goodness of marriage. Ultimately, it's the one…

In this episode, Nate is getting ready to go on sabbatical which prompts the question, what is a sabbatical and why would a pastor need such a thing. Which leads us into a discussion about the nature of "paying a pastor" and how a transactional view that sees a pastor's salary through a consumeristic lens can often hinder ministry. We also talk abo…

In this episode, we talk about Christian culture, including memes. We talk about our time in youth ministry. We also about the interesting phenomenon that occurs during preaching when people often hear what they want to hear. We talk about humor and cynicism and all kinds of other things along the way!…

In this episode, we talk about the GREATEST ISSUE our generation faces, whether or not we should wear a mask! (Hopefully you read that with the sarcasm intended!) This is the one where we spend way too much time and have way too much fun talking about masks. It's the one where we talk about the fact that we have lost "nuance" in our culture. We tal…

This is the one where Michael has just come back from vacation, where we have both just watched the documentary "The Last Dance" which chronicles the Chicago Bulls 1997-98 season. It's the one where Nate forgot to edit the audio for a week and so we could have named it, "The One That Got Left on the Cutting room floor." Ultimately, it's the one whe…

In this Episode, Michael is on vacation and so Nate connects with one of his former students from his first youth ministry. Ryan Gage joins us on the podcast. Ryan is the Worship and Creative Arts pastor at Nampa College Church of the Nazarene and has recently launched a facebook page called Real Black Fridays, where he and his wife, Ashley, post v…

In this episode, Michael and Nate talk about the wisdom of Fred Rogers during all that we are facing in our world right now. It's the one where Michale goes to virtual camp, and Nate is about to be another year older. It's the one where we are reminded that our faults and our difficult feelings are actually doorways towards empathy for others. Ulti…

In this episode, we talk about current events and the end of the world. We discuss how our own vision is short-sighted when we talk about healing and reconciliation and how we often just want things fixed efficiently rather than being willing to do the hard work of intimacy. Nate is having a day where he doesn't feel very hopeful, and so we talk ab…

In this episode, we continue to podcast in a pandemic. We are joined by Nate's intern, Noah Terry. (A long time fan of the show!) We wrestle with the events in the United States in recent days regarding racial injustice. We talk about opting for intimacy over efficiency, about being quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. Ultimate…

In this episode, we hear the story of Nate losing all the water out of his pool. We talk about an article that predicts the coming "crash" of pastors because of COVID-19 and we learn that Michael feels like ministry is a constant crash of sorts. We also talk about John Wesley's Aldersgate experience and pontificate a little bit about the role of ou…

In this episode we talk more about quarantine. We also talk good about our moms right before mother's day. But probably most importantly, we talk about the fact that two of our children are DATING!!! Say what??

In this episode, we talk about the realities of continuing to pastor people from a distance. We focus on our need for solitude and sabbath. We talk about all the idea that even though we may have time on our hands, it may be difficult for us to find rest and solitude. It is the one where we realize that being constantly connected leaves us longing …

This is the one where we are still in quarantine during Holy Week. It's the one where we talk about what we are doing during the pandemic. We also discuss the nature of the first Easter as an event that was understated at first, but eventually changed the world. It's the one where we wonder if the pandemic might have helped our churches realize wha…

This is the one where we continue to discover what it means to pastor during a pandemic. It's the one one where Michael talks about the long term aspects of ministry, where we talk about the nature of people to want to have physical contact whether that be in the form of a high-five, a fist bump, or a hug. We also talk about both the positive aspec…

This is the one where we find ourselves pastoring in the midst of a pandemic, where we talk about the value of PRESENCE, where we think about the idea of a forced sabbath, and where we talk about how our church is ministering during the Coronavirus Outbreak. Ultimately, it's the one where we look forward to seeing what God is going to do in the mid…

This is the one where Michael is in town after dropping Maggie off at SNU and we sit down in my office. It's the one where we both have recently seen Tom Hanks in "A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood" with our congregations and HAVE to talk about it. It's the one where we talk about prophets as street performers and how daily practices shape the wa…

This is the one where Nate tries out a sensory deprivation float and decides it is not for him. It's the one where we talk about the value (and difficulty) of accountability. We wonder about the legitimacy of needing to "leave a group behind" in order to grow into what God is calling us to, and ultimately we decide that sticking together (if at all…

This is the one where Michael and Nate hang out on the campus of Southern Nazarene University right across from where the prayer chapel used to stand. We talk about sacred spaces and how they shape us as a people. Ultimately we look at what makes a space "sacred."

In this episode, Michael shares a story about Nate's driving and the fact that we are both thankful to be alive. We hope that Judah isn't scarred for life. We finally end up somehow talking about the idea of free will, and how that works out in our salvation.

In this episode, we discuss Michael's hobby of creating works of Art. We also learn that Nate went through an art phase which ultimately ended with one of his pieces of art being thrown in a trash chute. We discover that the prophets might have been more street performer than orators and we discuss the role of art in the Church. We ultimately find …

This is the one where Nate drives down to Camp Bond to hear Michael preach and where we record a podcast LIVE, in the same room! It's also the one where we talk about the Holy Spirit as a force field, where Brett Armstrong's CPR Dummies are freaking us out, where Nate talks about the song he wants played at his funeral, and where ultimately we just…

This is the one where we get together after a couple busy summer months and make sure everyone knows we are still alive! It's the one where Michael has come back from vacation and running into Brent, and where our kids ran into each other at NYC. We also learn about Nate's new Bonsai habit and the book that cam from it, where Michael wants to grow …

In this episode, we talk about our tendency to want to know who is in and who is out. We talk about Jesus' tendency to want to reframe the question when he was faced with similar questions. We also see that what Jesus ultimately does for us is to set us free to love and to allow the Holy Spirit to convict. We also catch up a bit after being off air…

This is the one about salvation. This is the one where Joe Ibanez joins Nate to pontificate with Michael from their class in San Diego. We discuss the idea of what it means to be saved, how we handle our anger with God, and even whether we can "lose our salvation." It's the one where we realize that God is big enough to handle our anger, that salva…

This is the one where Michael has just returned from a Nazarene gathering in Kansas City and Nate has just returned from Hawaii. It's also the one where Dray isn't sure we answered his question, and the one where we ATTEMPT to answer Lauren's question about what to do with our anger and when anger is righteous. Ultimately it's the one that we reali…

This is the one where we answer Dray Murray's question. It's the one where we get to be together in one place with our mutual friend Pastor Brent Green sipping on some amazing coffee from Sommer Moon Coffee Company. It's the one where we talk about what it means to be "political' and how pastors should handle politics in the pulpit and in our world…

This is the episode where we begin answering listener questions. It's the one where Morgan's question about if Heaven is here or someone else gets us talking about the afterlife, where we somehow end up talking about heretics and then weaving all that into talking about Josh's question about sanctification. Somewhere along the way we talk about ran…

This is the one where we pontificate on our first question from 2019 about why the Old Testament God and Jesus look so different and are often pitted against each other. It's the one where Nate goes to work with his wife for a day, where Shelley is getting up at ungodly hours, where we lament that many Christians simply need the blood of Jesus. Ult…

This is the one where we challenge Julie Andrews about starting at the very beginning being a very good place to start. The is the one where we start the New Year at the END. It's the one about end times, about Armageddon, etc. It's the one where we argue that reading the End first, helps us interpret the previous sections of scripture. It's the on…

This is the one where we are joined by Immanuel right before Christmas. We talk about the season of Advent and what it means to wait in a culture that hates waiting. (I bet you can't wait to hear it!)

This is the one where we talk Christmas traditions, where we find out Santa goes to Michael's Church, and where Immanuel Brooks gets a shoutout! (Seemed only fitting!) It's also the one where we find out that Nate doesn't decorate the outside of his house to keep Elon Musk happy, and where we discover that Piggs do fly! Ultimately its the one where…