Economist and "Noahpinion" writer Noah Smith and investor Erik Torenberg make sense of what’s happening in the news, technology, business, and beyond, through the lens of economics. Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: turpentine.co
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You’ll hear consequential ideas here first, and in the mainstream months later. Upstream is a curated nexus feed from the Turpentine podcast network, bringing you expert-level conversations hosted by some of the most compelling thinkers in the world including Noah Smith, Samo Burja, Byrne Hobart, Erik Torenberg, and Nathan Labenz. Guests include Marc Andreessen, Balaji Srinivasan, Dario Amodei, Brian Armstrong, David Sacks, Sam Harris, Katherine Boyle, Curtis Yarvin, and many more unmissable ...
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Investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Topics covered: Finance, Venture Capital, Tech, AI, Crypto, and Industry Cycles The Riff is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: turpentine.co
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See the world through the eyes of society's greatest rule-breakers. The "Live Players" podcast charts the key individuals shaping our future from first principles across multiple domains: business, politics, philanthropy, and broadcasting from the digital town square Join host Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg as they analyze the mindsets of today's most intriguing business leaders, investors, and innovators through the lens of their bold actions and contrarian worldviews. You'll come away with ...
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E67: Hidden X-Risk, Network Effects of Elon’s Empire, and American Hegemony
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58:56This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg explore Donald Trump Jr.'s financial leverage of the Trump brand, Dustin Moskovitz's shift toward AI existential risks, Elon Musk's strategic decisions with Twitter, potential U.S. recessions, political party shifts, China's AI policy, and the broader impact of these developments on Wall Street and Main St…
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Abundance Debate, Sex Politics, and Left vs Right Economic Populism
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1:01:10This week, Noah Smith and Erik Tornberg explore Japan’s economic and societal structure—covering urban zoning, housing policy, and government efficiency—before critiquing Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, advocating for balanced market dynamics and governance, and discussing broader socio-political themes like right-wing ideologies, gende…
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E128: US-Europe Relations, How Japan Can Strengthen The Yen, and Predicting AI’s Growth Effects w/ Noah Smith
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55:36Today on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith analyze America's European withdrawal, China's selective globalization strategy, and tempers expectations about AI's economic impact while considering GDP measurement challenges. — 📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏Help shape our sh…
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E127: The Tech Right and How The Left Can Fix Itself w/ Jon Askonas
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48:10Today on Upstream, we’re airing Erik Torenberg’s conversation with Jon Askonas. They explore the emerging coalition between MAGA supporters and Silicon Valley tech leaders, examines the underlying political realignment, the tensions and fault lines within this coalition, and the potential future conflicts surrounding issues like immigration and tra…
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How Europe, America and China are Repositioning
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54:08This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg explore global economic issues, including US-European relations influenced by defense commitments, the impact of Trump’s policies, China’s Belt and Road Initiative and its exclusion of India, the role of AI in economic growth, government spending’s effects on GDP, and briefly discuss Smith’s upcoming book, W…
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E126: Data Center Economics and AI Energy Requirements w/ Patrick McKenzie and Azeem Azhar
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1:17:05Today on Upstream, we’re releasing Patrick MacKenzie's interview with Azeem Azhar which originally aired in February 2025 on Complex Systems. They discuss the economics and infrastructure of data centers, comparing historical infrastructure rollouts to modern AI-driven data center needs, and explore the implications of exponential power demands, in…
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E125: Palantir’s Politics, Elon’s Approach to DOGE, and AI’s Effects on Writing w/ Byrne Hobart
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58:51Today on Upstream, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg dive into the wide-ranging effects of technological change on media and society. They cover the AI debate, blogging's social impact, AI's influence on search and data, the changing news industry, foreign aid cuts, and the rise of new tech elites. This episode originally aired on The Riff (March 11,…
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Making Sense of America's Tariff Chaos
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1:04:18This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss the chaos caused by Trump's trade policies, tariffs' effects on the U.S. economy, potential recession risks, economic isolationism, policy uncertainty, investment impacts, and the broader cultural and societal shifts in America, including the decline of Christianity, the rise of wokeness, and communi…
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E66: The Politics of Alex Karp and Palantir, DOGE Breakdown, and AI vs Blogging
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56:30This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg explore the effects of technological change on media and society, covering topics such as the AI debate, blogging's social impact, AI's influence on search and data, the changing news industry, foreign aid cuts, and the rise of new tech elites. --- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey …
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E124: How to Have A Philosophical Marriage w/ Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks
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1:12:09Today on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode from Modern Relationships which originally aired on February 28, 2025 where Erik Torenberg interviews philosophy professors Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks about their unconventional marriage, the role of philosophy in their relationship, the impact of their public profile, and how they balance personal…
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AI, Stargate, & Surveillance with Auron McIntyre and Lev Polyakov
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39:39In this episode, Noah Smith recently went on the Break the Rules podcast, hosted by Lev Polyakov, for a debate with Auron MacIntyre. They discuss the societal implications of AI development, focusing on Trump's relationships with tech leaders, AI systems like Stargate, surveillance, economic productivity, regulatory measures, geopolitical competiti…
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E123: Trump & The Game of Populism w/ Samo Burja
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59:15Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the limitations of populist politics, the difficulty populists face in effecting change despite electoral wins, and the influence of digital democracy on modern governance. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape our show by taking ou…
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E122: Victor Davis Hanson on What Trump Thinks of Zelensky and Predicting Geopolitics
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37:51In this Upstream episode, Erik Torenberg sits down with military historian Victor Davis Hanson. They discuss the future of Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, the evolution of the American left, and Donald Trump's potential future legacy. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape …
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Richard Hanania & Noah Smith: Making Sense of Trump, Elon, and Global Politics
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1:17:17This week, we're sharing Richard Hanania and Noah Smith’s live conversation from Feb 6th, recorded for their Substack audiences. This is the first time the two writers have met, and in this conversation they covered fundamental differences between the American right and left movements. They also discuss Elon Musk's positioning as the future Republi…
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E121: Kevin Kelly on What Makes Us Human in an AI World
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50:16In this episode of Upstream, we’re releasing Erik Torenberg’s interview from 2023 with Kevin Kelly, founding executive editor of Wired Magazine, discussing Kevin’s new advice book, the impact of gratitude, and how technology, especially AI, interacts with and shapes human existence and culture. — 📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publi…
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Elon calls Noah a Liar, Inflation, and Changes Democrats Need to Make
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1:02:26This week Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss three key areas where Democrats need to rethink their strategy: embracing anti-inflation policies similar to the Clinton era, focusing on genuine threats to democracy rather than partisan hobby horses, and abandoning progressive language policing that alienates voters. Noah also talks about how Elon M…
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E65: Bill Gates’s Persona, Against Copying Berkshire Hathaway, and Making the Economy More Like Chipotle
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1:01:15This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg examine why Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway can't be successfully replicated today, analyze Bill Gates's public versus private persona, and consider how economic growth manifests as "premium mediocre" options like Chipotle. --- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly…
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E120: Why Europe Matters for America’s Future w/ Samo Burja
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1:00:10This week on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the widespread interest in U.S. politics and its global influence, particularly in Western and European countries, the internet's role in synchronizing political and cultural norms, and potential changes in European political landscapes influenced by American ideologies and media. — 📰 Be …
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In this episode of Live Players, Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg discuss the global influence of U.S. politics on Western countries, the persistence of Western civilization as a political unit, the synchronization of political interests via the internet, and the potential for significant right-wing and free speech shifts in Europe given increased Ame…
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E119: Free Trade, AI Integration, and Shopify Q4 Results w/ Shopify President Harley Finkelstein
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58:43Erik Torenberg interviews Harley Finkelstein, president of Shopify, discussing tariffs, political shifts, Shopify's earnings, and the evolution of entrepreneurship. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/Turp…
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Europe's Fate, Ukraine & Russia, and the Post-American Era
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55:08In this episode, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss how Ukraine has proven surprisingly resilient throughout the war by maintaining its economy and developing significant domestic drone manufacturing capabilities. He argues that "Europe is not toothless" despite America's shifting role, detailing how Europe collectively has greater manufacturing…
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E64: US vs China’s Strategies, Uber’s Growth Model, AI Supply Chains
1:03:04
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1:03:04This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg discuss technological inflection points and examine how legal frameworks mask continued globalization despite apparent retrenchment, explores US-China dynamics, analyzes AI industry structure and emerging models, and considers Uber's strategic positioning against autonomous vehicles. --- 🙏 Help shape our s…
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E118: Ending Woke, Why Elon Wins, and A Return to Innovation w/ Marc Andreessen [Moment of Zen repost]
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1:48:29Marc Andreessen and Erik Torenberg discuss the ongoing political and cultural shift in America, covering topics such as preference falsification, the role of DEI in tech and other sectors, the influence of group chats, and the emerging dynamic in politics with highly capable appointments in the new administration. — 📰Be notified early when Turpenti…
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How the Macro, Tariffs and DOGE will Impact your Bank Account | Noah Smith on How To Money
1:03:04
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1:03:04This week, we’re bringing you an episode from the How to Money podcast, hosted by Joel Larsgaard and Matt Altmix, with special guest Noah Smith. Together, they dive into a range of topics, including the impact of tariffs, Substack’s revolutionary media model, and Noah’s unique economic philosophy. Tune in for insights on the escalating national deb…
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E117: The Future of Martian & Interplanetary Societies w/ Samo Burja
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1:01:25This week on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the economic, political, and cultural implications of colonizing Mars and the Moon, discussing space treaties, potential Martian and Earth societal divergence, and the technological advancements driving humanity's future as a multi-planetary species. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine'…
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Predicting Humanity’s Interplanetary Future
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1:00:27Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg discuss the future of space colonization, touching on the implications of Mars and lunar settlements, the technological advancements driving space exploration, and how multi-planetary life might reshape human cultures, geopolitical dynamics, and economic structures. — 📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publ…
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Elon's Real Goal at DOGE & How to Fix the Debt
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56:31This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg talk about DOGE, Elon Musk's initiative to reform government spending, and explore why it might be more about ideology than efficiency. Noah talks about how he would fix the US debt beyond simply cutting waste. They also cover the future of major programs like Medicaid ($804B/year), the trade-offs between in…
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E63: OpenAI Deep Research, Elon’s Potential Hostile Takeover, and AI Agent Companies
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59:04This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg discuss the transformative impact of technological advancements, particularly OpenAI's research, Elon Musk’s $97 billion offer to acquire its controlling nonprofit, and the implications for business, jobs, regulation, and Musk's strategies with X and Doja. --- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick list…
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E116: Stuck Academia, US vs China, and Why Startups Work
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1:03:43Today, we're re-releasing an episode from 2023 where Erik Torenberg sits down with physicist and startup founder Steve Hsu on topics including the ideological shift in academia, the impact of AI on labor, China's technological advancements and geopolitical position, and the global fertility decline. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new…
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Patrick Collison & Noah Smith: How Can the US Stay Ahead Technologically?
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49:38This week, Noah Smith and Stripe CEO Patrick Collison recorded a live conversation on Substack covering topics such as American technological leadership, global competition, industrial policy, foreign direct investment, post-financial crisis productivity trends, US financial system advantages, progressive policies, the middle class, tariffs, immigr…
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E115: New Tariff Implications, DeepSeek and Open Source Analysis, and Meta’s Big Bets w/ Byrne Hobart
1:10:53
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1:10:53Erik Torenberg and Byrne Hobart discuss the implications of recent tariffs, the impact of AI advancements like DeepSeek, Meta's investments in VR and AI, stock market dynamics, and differing perspectives on open-source AI models. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape ou…
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Understanding US-China Relations Right Now with Nathan Labenz
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1:05:19In this week’s episode of Econ 102, Noah Smith, with special guest Nathan Labenz (host of AI podcast The Cognitive Revolution) breaks down the current landscape of U.S.-China relations and how once-allies became rivals under Xi Jinping's aggressive strategies. While China shows growing AI capabilities like DeepSeek, Smith emphasizes that the real c…
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E62: Trump’s Tariffs, Open Source AI Models, and The Future of VR
1:09:29
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1:09:29This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg explore the impact of technological advancements on markets and businesses, covering topics like global trade tariffs, political populism, AI's evolving role, open-source vs. proprietary models, stock market trends, and Meta’s investments in the metaverse and AR. --- 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our qui…
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E114: Tyler Cowen on Legacy, Twitter + Harvard, and Fertility Decline [Upstream Archive]
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59:58Tyler Cowen discusses his book on the greatest economists of all time, evaluates the contributions of macroeconomics, and touches on topics such as stagnation, AI, fertility, and the future of academia and societal trends. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape our show …
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Paul Krugman on Leaving NYT, America's Economy, and Trump
1:09:06
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1:09:06This week Noah Smith and economist Paul Krugman hopped on a call to discuss Paul's departure from the New York Times, the benefits of independent writing, U.S. manufacturing and industrial policy, geopolitics, Trump 2.0, and the impact of public opinion on economic and political discourse. This conversation first aired in Noah's substack Noahpinion…
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E113: Reflections on Yarvin, Why the Right is Stuck, and Startups as Dictatorships w/ Samo Burja
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58:09In this episode, Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg discuss Curtis Yarvin's recent New York Times interview. They explored his ideas, especially the comparison between corporate market dynamics and government functionality, and the need for live players in leadership to prevent bureaucratic decay. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new public…
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Curtis Yarvin and the Evolution of American Political Thought
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57:14In this episode of Live Players, Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg discuss Curtis Yarvin's influence on government efficiency ideas, the pitfalls of gridlock and bureaucratic decay, and how transformative figures and strategic decision-making affect national and corporate success. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://w…
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Trump's Executive Orders, China's Economy, The Bull Case for the Middle East, and Europe's Decline
1:07:11
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1:07:11In this episode, Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith discuss wide range of topics, including Trump’s executive orders and their effects on U.S. politics, international tariffs, Michael Pettis's views on China's economy, the Middle East’s potential with solar energy, and Europe’s socio-political shifts, all through the lens of economics. -- 🙏 Help shape o…
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E61: Markets React to DeepSeek, Threads vs X, and Stargate Announcement
1:06:20
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1:06:20This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg discuss the major disruptions in tech and business driven by AI advancements, examining reactions to DeepSeek's announcements, stock impacts on companies like Nvidia, volatility in AI investments, Meta's Threads, Elon Musk’s influence on X, the role of tech in a politically charged landscape, and how gover…
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E112: Election Update, Tech’s Political Shift, and America’s Stuck GDP | This Won’t Last
1:13:35
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1:13:35This week on Upstream, we’re sharing Keith Rabois, Kevin Ryan, Logan Bartlett, and Zach Weinberg’s discussion of the 2025 post-election landscape centered on Trump's victory, examining his evolved approach and tech industry support, while exploring interconnected policy challenges around immigration, corporate politics, urban crime, and market regu…
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Why Elites Failed Us w/ Auren Hoffman [World of DaaS]
1:19:53
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1:19:53Samo Burja discusses his "Great Founder Theory," in the Word of DaaS Podcast with Auren Hoffman, arguing that exceptional individuals throughout history have shaped civilization by creating influential institutions, while also exploring modern challenges around societal trust, fertility rates, and the changing dynamics between young and old generat…
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E111: Samo Burja & Auren Hoffman on the Decline of Fertility Rates and Institutional Trust
1:20:27
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1:20:27Samo Burja and Auren Hoffman discuss various topics including the Great Founder Theory, the decline of trust in elites, falling fertility rates, and the importance of exceptional individuals in shaping history and future societal structures. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 H…
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E60: Trump Coin, US Industrial Policy, and TikTok Ban
1:04:24
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1:04:24On this week's episode of The Riff, Erik Torenberg and Byrne Hobart explore the impact of technological change on markets, touching on meme investments, ESG, the rise of meme stocks and coins, Trump’s policies, China’s economic strategies, industrial policy debates, and how these factors could shape the future political and economic landscape. --- …
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Noah Smith on Taiwan's Future, Nuclear Proliferation, and Trump 2.0 [ChinaTalk]
1:11:56
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1:11:56While traveling to Taiwan, Noah Smith sat down with ChinaTalk's managing editor and Taipei correspondent Lily Ottinger to explore wide range of geopolitical and economic issues, including the potential impacts of a second Trump administration on Asia, where Elon Musk stands on Taiwan, nuclear proliferation, China's economic strategies, Taiwan's def…
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E59: Zuck’s PR, The Loneliness Economy, and OpenAI Corporate Structure
1:02:53
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1:02:53This week, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg explore the historical paradigms from agrarian to industrial eras and potential future growth, while also addressing challenges in adopting new technologies like AI, institutional constraints at companies like Meta, post-COVID loneliness, the Scandinavian economic model, China's deflation concerns, and str…
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E110: Crypto Debanking: What Really Happened | Patrick McKenzie
1:05:43
1:05:43
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1:05:43Today on Upstream, we’re releasing an interview between Erik Torenberg and Patrick McKenzie. Patrick discusses Operation Chokepoint, the origins of debanking, and how it affects the crypto industry, offering detailed insights into the political motivations, regulatory complexities, and practical ramifications of such banking decisions. — 📰 Be notif…
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E109: Dating & Relationships Deep Dive w/ Noah Smith and Katherine Dee (Default Friend)
57:24
57:24
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57:24This week on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode of Econ102. Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith talk with Katherine Dee (@default_friend) about dating in the 21st century, differences in dating markets, the impact of feminism, technology's influence on cultural creativity, societal shifts, and the state of online subcultures. — 📰 Be notified early when…
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A Debate with Scott Sumner: Industrial Policy, China, and National Security
57:30
57:30
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57:30In this episode, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg are joined by Scott Sumner, an American economist and previously the Director of the Program on Monetary Policy at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, examine the impact of U.S.-China relations on economic and industrial policies, discussing topics such as tariffs, manufacturing capabilitie…
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E108: Should AI have Rights? With Nathan Labenz and Yeshua God, Robopsychologist
3:01:42
3:01:42
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3:01:42This week on Upstream, Nathan Labenz explores the fascinating and controversial realm of AI consciousness with robo-psychologist Yeshua God. Yeshua tackles the philosophical and ethical considerations of AI consciousness, discussing AI self-awareness, memory, and emotional capacity, while debating the implications of treating AI as sentient beings.…
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Canada After Trudeau, Immigration Debate, and China's Economy
1:01:33
1:01:33
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1:01:33This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg explore the possibility of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, Xi Jinping's political future, U.S.-China tensions, Trump's and Biden's policies, the 2019 global protests, China's economic troubles, and the challenges facing Western nations, while also emphasizing the need for bipartisan cooperation on U.S. industr…
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