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The Art Law Podcast

Steven Schindler & Katie Wilson-Milne

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The Art Law Podcast hosts discussions about topics at the intersection of art and law with art lawyers Steve Schindler and Katie Wilson-Milne and their distinguished guests.
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Katie and Steve speak with preeminent art advisor Megan Fox Kelly about the proliferation of resale restrictions in art transactions, what problems they seek to address, who they purport to help, how effective they are, and the legal issues they raise. They discuss the overlapping cultural, social, and legal aspects of these contractual terms. Note…
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Send us a text Cover Image: Artist's MFA Studio - Tribeca Ball. To learn more, please visit Stefania Salles Bruins' site. Show Notes: 1:15 art school’s training to visually think 2:00 Bruins’ work as attorney 2:30 overview of grad program at New York Academy of Art 5:00 medium: use of linseed oil and paint without medium 5:30 tools: importance of b…
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Steve and Katie speak with two preeminent French art lawyers, Anne-Sophie Nardon and Olivier de Baecque, about disputes surrounding the authenticity of art and how French and US courts get involved in these disputes. Because many of the world’s greatest artists made their home in France, many of the experts on these artists and their work are in Fr…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit the World Culture Project and read about D. Paul Schafer's most recent book, The Great Cultural Awakening Show Notes: 0:00 Schafer quotes Gurte: “live in the whole , the good and the beautiful” 2:15 background 7:50 Ontario Arts Council 8:15 Arts Administration and Cultural Policy graduate program at York U…
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Send us a text Show notes: 1:20 background and work in IP law and technology 2:20 blog article, “What can internet history teach us?” 3:25 IP issues emerging in the age of AI 5:10 inevitability of AI 6:40 global regulation of AI 8:25 Emily Gould - which body would handle global regulation of AI 11:00 Council of Europe’s adoption of first AI interna…
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Steve and Katie discuss several art law topics in this end-of-season episode. They talk about internal thefts at the British Museum, the ongoing Victorious Youth litigation between Italy and the Getty Trust, the Damien Hirst backdating scandals, the litigation between the Manhattan DA and the Art Institute of Chicago, and the recent litigation betw…
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Send us a text To learn more about Tetiana Cheprasova, please visit her page at Agency of Artists in Exile. Special thanks to Valentina Kostornichenko for acting as interpreter in this episode. Show Notes: 0:00 Tetiana Cheprasova's view of the war in Ukraine & interpreter Valentina Kostornichenko 1:30 Cheprasova's background and work in painting, p…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit Angie Elita Newell's site for All I See Is Violence. Show Notes: 1:20 Newel’s background 4:00 impetus to address historic inaccuracies 4:50 women warriors 5:30 research process 7:20 perspectives decided on for All I See Is Violence 8:45 interconnectedness of all 10:15 timelines within All I See Is Violence…
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Steve and Katie speak with Italian lawyer Giuseppe Calabi and art historian Sharon Hecker about Italy’s cultural patrimony laws granting state institutions control over the use of images of cultural property long in the public domain. They discuss the legal, ethical, and practical issues with such laws and their specific application to uses of the …
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Send us a text Cover Photo by Nils Paellmann 0:00 Restitution Study Group (RSG) Executive Director Deadria Farmer-Paellmann 1:30 overview of suit and issues raised 4:30 Prof. Tobias Skowronek’s findings on the metals contained in the manillas 7:00 Dismissal of suit against Smithsonian based on mootness 7:55 court order that Plaintiffs conceded poin…
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Steve and Katie talk with their colleague, Tom Kline, about the Nazi’s program of remaking European culture, the enormous theft and displacement of art that occurred as part of that program, and the efforts of the heirs of Jews displaced during World War II to reclaim art and cultural property. The discussion focuses on the Washington Principles, t…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit Fast Familiar's site. Show Notes: 0:00 Briscoe discussing justice 1:20 Briscoe’s background in theatre and co-founding Fast Familiar 3:15 2015 project ‘Invisible Treasure’ about systems of power 4:40 2018 began work with computational artist Joe McAlister 5:20 technological solutions for use in projects 6:…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit Laura Morelli's site. Show Notes: 0:00 Laura Morelli discussing the WWII era art looting 1:15 genesis of writing about the looting of Florentine art collections in The Last Masterpiece 2:45 German Jewish artist Rudolph Levy as guest of German Art History Institute 4:30 Stolperstein for Levy 5:00 perspectiv…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit Barbara Hinske's website. Cover photo of Barbara Hinske, 2020 Jean Laninga Creative. Show Notes: 0:00 Guiding Emily Series to effect change for good in the sighted community 1:15 background in engineering and the law 2:00 whodunit books by Barbara’s father 2:25 double vision by auto accident led to Rosemon…
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Katie and Steve speak with colleague Eden Burgess about the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA), its history, purpose, and requirements to repatriate cultural property and human remains to Native American tribes and Native Hawaiian Organizations, as well as new regulations that are leading major museums to remove or clos…
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Send us a text Featuring excerpts from Episode 108, an interview with Dr. Ashfaq Ishaq, and Episode 105, an interview with Milena Chorna, with musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2024. Many thanks to M.C. Sungaila who sparked the idea for "Manifestation of Freedom". Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.co…
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Katie and Steve take a deep dive into the history and current status of the Parthenon Marbles with Alexander Herman, director of the Institute of Art and Law in London and author of the recent book The Parthenon Marbles Dispute: Heritage, Law, Politics. Notes for this episode: https://artlawpodcast.com/2024/03/04/the-parthenon-marbles-dispute/ Foll…
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Send us a text Show Notes: 0:00 M.C. Sungaila discussing history / preservation of space exploration 1:50 Sungaila’s Portia Project Podcast interview with Space Law Expert Michelle Hanlon 2:45 Sungaila’s experience with University of Mississippi School of Law’s Air and Space Program 5:30 unclear language related to space law 8:00 mining on the moon…
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Send us a text Cover image by Nosrat Tarighi of Sanjay Sethi at an AFI event entitled Revolutions and Movements To learn more, please visit the sites for Artistic Freedom Initiative and Sethi & Mazaheri, LLC. Show Notes: 2:00 overview of Sethi’s background and work as Founding Partner of Sethi & Mazaheri, LLC and Co-Executive Director of Artistic F…
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Katie and Steve discuss three recent litigation updates. They discuss the outcome of the trial in the case brought by Dmitry Rybolovlev against Sotheby’s for aiding in the alleged fraud of Yves Bouvier, the most recent Richard Prince fair use copyright infringement cases brought by two photographers, and the Ninth Circuit decision applying Spanish …
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Send us a text Show Notes: 2:00 Dr. Joanna Sliwa’s background 4:20 Dr. Elizabeth White’s background 5:20 Majdanek concentration camp 8:00 1989 - White received the manuscript of Dr. Janina Mehlberg’s unpublished memoir from Dr. Arthur Funk 10:30 Dr. Janina Mehlberg’s humanitarian work in Polish concentration camp during WWII 12:20 Mehlberg’s alias …
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Send us a text Show Notes: 1:00 overview of thesis topic 3:00 2018 music video at the Louvre by Beyoncé and Jay Z 3:55 Advertising campaign by Louis Vuitton that featured Joan Mitchell paintings 6:00 2020 Uffizi promotional campaign to promote Botticelli exhibition 7:25 Uffizi’s TikTok account posting with Dua Lipa 8:10 criticism of Uffizi campaign…
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Steve and Katie take a look at the many developments around generative AI and fine art, including debates and litigation on copyrightability and infringement as well as the policy concerns surrounding increased use of generative AI to create artworks. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2024/01/09/2023-ai-and-art-wrap-up/ Follow the Ar…
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Send us a text To learn more, please have a look at Dr. Ercolani's book, The Maidan Museum: Preserving the Spirit of Maidan. Show Notes: 1:00 Ercolani’s background 3:50 Ercolani’s focus of Ukraine 6:40 research and writing The Maidan Museum: Preserving the Spirit of Maidan 11:40 new Maidan language created that includes symbols 14:45 portraits by M…
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Send us a text Featuring excerpts from Episode 121, an interview with Dr. Samson Munn and musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2023. Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website. Music by Toulme. To view rewards for supporting the pod…
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Send us a text Cover Photo of David Newhoff by Sean Mekas To learn more, please visit Mr. Newhoff's site as well as his blog, The Illusion of More. Show Notes: 1:45 Newhoff’s background 4:15 impetus to write Who Invented Oscar Wilde?: The Photograph at the Center of Modern American Copyright? 6:15 SCOTUS’s Warhol decision 10:00 Sarony’s input compa…
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Katie and Steve talk with renowned art lawyer Pierre Valentin about the EU’s new and striking import regulations on cultural goods, including fine art and cultural property, that prohibit the import of applicable items not created in the EU into the EU if they cannot be shown to have been legally exported from their countries of origin. We discuss …
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Send us a text Cover Image: Self-Portrait, oil on canvas by Jacob Mącznik. To learn more, please visit the website for Jacob Mącznik, the Lost Art Database page for Mącznik's Still Life with Fish, The Austrian Encounter and the trailer to The Ghosts of the Third Reich. Show Notes: 0:00 Dr. Samson Munn discussing Van Ham art auctionhouse 1:45 Munn’s…
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Send us a text Show Notes: 0:00 Yelena Khajekian 1:30 Warhol v Goldsmith decision by SCOTUS 3:00 USCO NOI’s Question 8 4:00 Google LLC v. Oracle America, Inc., 593 U.S. ___ (2021) 4:20 liability question 4:45 Emily Gould - fair use 6:30 Alan Robertshaw - Warhol court’s focus on use of the work 7:50 Khajekian - artists’ perspective on Warhol decisio…
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Steve and Katie talk with their colleague Tom Kline about his client, the Massachusetts Charitable Mechanic Association (MCMA), and its decades-long quest to reclaim the dramatic marble statue The Wounded Indian by Peter Stephenson, modeled after the Roman sculpture The Dying Gaul. MCMA was founded by Paul Revere in 1795 and was gifted the statue i…
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Send us a text Cover art: Martha Szabo, Rooftops in Snow 11, oil on linen, 24 x 35 in., circa 1964 To learn more, please visit the sites for Martha Szabo and MSeum. Show Notes: 0:00 Art historian Kathleen Hulser 1:30 Journalist Julia Szabo’s motivation to work on Martha Szabo’s body of work 4:30 MSeum to be built in the Catskills 5:00 National Asso…
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Send us a text Cover art by Donald "C-Note" Hooker: top image "Cell Time" (2019); bottom image "During the Flood" (2017) To learn more, please visit the sites for Donald "C-Note" Hooker and Art for Redemption. Show Notes: 0:00 Anna D. Smith discussing C-Note Hooker’s artwork entitled “During the Flood” 1:20 Smith’s background 3:15 Smith’s work as a…
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Send us a text To learn more and support Vacant to Visual artists, please visit the CityKey website. To reach out and learn more about Ernest Chrappah's work, please visit his website. Show notes: 0:00 Ernest Chrappah 1:10 Chrappah’s background 4:00 Washington DC’s Vacant to Visual program 9:00 artists included in the Vacant to Visual program 9:50 …
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit the website for the #lastseen project. SHOW NOTES: 0:00 Katharina Menschick on the response to #lastseen project 3:00 Menschick – research associate in Arolsen Archives’ historical research department dealing with digital memory projects, digital archival projects and archival theory 3:20 Dr. Christoph Kre…
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Steve and Katie speak with Dr. Carina Popovici, CEO and Founder of Art Recognition, an art and technology startup that uses AI systems to evaluation the authenticity of artworks. They discuss the problems with authentication in the traditional art market and the promise and limitations of AI in solving these problems along with some real-world exam…
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Send us a text SHOW NOTES: 0:00 Alan Robertshaw 1:00 Emily Gould - overview of AI historical development 2:30 first phase - 1950s Alan Turing - machines do what they are told 3:10 second phase - machine learning creating models using data and develop methods to make decisions / predictions based on that data 3:50 third phase - deep learning usually…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit the sites for Sojourn Theatre, One Nation/One Project, and the Undoing Time: Art and Histories of Incarceration exhibition. Cover Photograph: "Rohd co-facilitating an arts convening in Boston this past fall with Nicole Brewer and musicians from Silkroad Ensemble" Show Notes: 3:45 Rohd’s background 4:50 'Ho…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit the websites for Jeremy Richter, J.W. Judge, Scarlet Oak Press and The Write Approach podcast. Show Notes: 1:00 Commercial litigation practice with Gordon Rees 4:00 Sustainable marketing and branding with writing law blog 5:00 Speaking and presenting at conferences on legal topics 5:20 Writing legal non-fi…
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Send us a text Cover art After World War III, 2020, oil on board, 60 cm x 80 cm, by Farook Mohammed To learn more, please visit the website for the Afro Arabian Empire. Show Notes: 00:45 Pan-African mission of his artwork that combines the diversity of Africa 2:30 artwork to promote brotherhood and unity for Africa and the world 8:00 artwork tells …
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Katie and Steve speak with WIPO economists Alexander Cuntz and Matthias Sahli about their recent article, Intermediary liability and trade in follow-on innovation, published in the Journal of Cultural Economics in February 2023. Their research looks at how intermediaries in the art market altered their behavior after the Second Circuit’s decision i…
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Send us a text To learn more: 18 April 2023 UK Parliament's Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee regarding NFTs and the blockchain, Emily Gould's correspondence following the hearing on several issues touched on by the Committee; and NFT-related posts on the IAL Blog. Show Notes: 1:15 Beeple sold ”Everydays — The First 5000 Days” for $69 mil…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit the websites for the Max Stern Restitution Project, the HEAR Act, the Second Circuit's decision in Zuckerman v. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Zurückgeben Foundation and Almost Lost: the Heinemann Legacy (Before, During, and After the Holocaust). Show Notes: 1:30 Max Stern Art Restitution Project 2:30…
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Katie and Steve talk to Philippa Loengard, copyright expert and Director of the Kernochan Center for Law, Media and the Arts at Columbia Law School, about the much-anticipated Supreme Court decision in Andy Warhol Foundation v. Goldsmith, which resets and limits the applicability of “transformative” fair use as an exception to copyright infringemen…
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Send us a text Cover image by Stephen Tromans: Climate Innocence, 1957, oil on board, 20x24 inches To view Stephen Tromans' work, please visit Mr. Tromans' website and Instagram as well as Ely Cathedral's feature of his Golgotha series, the Cambridge Drawing Society's discussion of his work and the Gallery Holt. Show Notes: 1:30 Troman’s choice to …
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit the sites for International Child Art Foundation, World Children's Festival and the International Child Arts Olympiad (with coming plans for the Paris 2024 Olympics ). Show Notes: 2:30 children’s creativity 3:30 empathy needed due to moral neutrality of creativity 4:30 adverse childhood experiences 5:20 tr…
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Send us a text Please visit the following links to learn more: Queen Mary’s LLM in Art, Business and Law and the Institute of Art and Law. Show Notes: 1:00 Stephanie Drawdy - introduction 1:20 Emily Gould - overview of the Institute of Art and Law (IAL) 5:20 Gould’s background 7:35 careers in art law practice 9:35 Janan Foster - background and expe…
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Send us a text "Exposed" musical composition by Toulme, Copyright 2023. Cover art: excerpt from Consequence, oil on panel, Stephanie Drawdy, copyright 2022. The following are the featured episode excerpts from Warfare of Art and Law: Episode 38: Glance at Culture - Defiant Requiem: Maestro Murry Sidlin on Terezín Concentration Camp, Verdi's Requiem…
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Send us a text To learn more, please visit the website for Ukraine's War Museum. Cover photo by Viktor Byshev of the Church of the Nativity of the Holy Virgin in Peremoha that Russians attacked and damaged. Left in the photo is Dr. Yurii Savchuk and right is the clergyman from the Church, Oleksandr Yarmolchyk. Show Notes: 1:30 National Museum of th…
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Katie and Steve talk to attorney Emily Poler, founder of Poler Legal, about the recent lawsuit between the iconic French fashion house Hermès and an NFT creator, Mason Rothschild, over Rothschild’s “MetaBirkin” NFTs. Hermès claimed that Rothschild infringed Hermès’ trademark in the name “Birkin.” Hermès prevailed on this claim (and others) in a jur…
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Send us a text Cover Image by Diane Allford To learn more, please visit the sites for Randall Horton and Radical Reversal. Show Notes: 00:00 Dr. Randall Horton’s work in poetry 02:00 Dr. Horton’s work as poet/writer, professor of English at University of New Haven, system-impacted 03:10 Chicago State’s MFA program 03:20 Definition of Place by Horto…
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