A Thousand Words – the Power of Pictures, Paint and Visual Storytelling

Folktellers : Stories to be Shared

How do images add or take away from a written story?

What is Visual Literacy in the Modern World?

What is the future of art in visual storytelling?

Our guest is Patrick McEvoy - an artist working in comics, illustration and multimedia animation, working professionally for over 25 years.

"In terms of genre, I've done Fantasy, SF, horror, and educational work (for ages ranging from kids to high school to college)."

"In the past I have worked on contract with Marvel, doing dozens of pictures for the Marvel Style Guide, lots of advertising, and other behind-the-scenes art. And you may have seen my work on a lot of game art, such as Arkham Horror, Call of Cthulhu, Warcraft CCG, Legend of the Five rings, and even about 100 cards for the Game of Thrones CCG."

Folktellers Studios | Folktellers Universe

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#PatrickMcEvoy

#VisualStorytelling

Well,
welcome everyone to the folk tellers stories to be shared podcast.
It's week 11 and we're talking about 1000 words,
the power of pictures,
paint and visual storytelling.
And I wanted to,
uh,
before I warm everyone up with our little thoughts for the day,
let's introduce my compatriots.
We have the stunning Steve Sadler.
Oh,
I like that word.
Do you know why?
Because I understand that word and the uh incomparable,
that's good.
There's two words we can understand and you can feel good about yourself.
So I appreciate it.
I just can't believe this has been a week 11 now.
I mean,
that's unbelievable,
but it's a good thing.
They say time flies and having fun,
but it's still fun.
We're still having fun.
That's what I'm saying.
This is work and this is,
this is a conundrum.
This is a OK.
All right.
So here we are week 11,
we're talking about visual storytelling power of pictures.
Um We're gonna have uh Patrick mcavoy on a little bit in a little bit.
Um Patrick's a uh incredible artist.
He does a lot of work for folk tellers and he's a big fan of Jack Kirby and people don't know who Jack Kirby is.
Jack Kirby was um the Marvel artist who came up with all the biggies.
He came up with the Hulk and Spiderman.
And you know,
it's funny,
people always think Stan Lee.
Stan Lee wasn't an artist.
He was a writer.
Uh Jack Kirby was the one who came up with,
with the,
the look,
the,
that the Marvel look.
So one of the things Jack Kirby said was says,
I achieve perfection.
My type of perfection through visual storytelling,
storytelling was my style.
And then I've got another quote here.
It says um this is Anthony Demelo.
Um He's a uh he,
I think he's actually a priest and uh uh he's a famous storyteller speaker.
Um You have to understand that the shortest distance between a human being and the truth is a story.
So those are our two icebreakers,
gentlemen.
Like,
so one of the first big questions is we're gonna get into visual storytelling.
So to you,
what,
what do you think visual storytelling is?
I leave the floor open.
Well,
uh an image is 1000 words,
right?
Yeah.
Pick a picture or a picture is 1000 words.
I don't know what,
what is the the exact phrase we're supposed to be a picture is worth 1000 words or an image,
right?
Or an image,
right?
Well,
we,
we're in digital today.
What does that mean?
We'll,
we'll use image because what,
what what does that really mean?
Is that true or is that just a absolutely sure it is.
I could look at an image and,
and pull a lot of context out of that image just by looking at it just like I can if I'm driving my car down the road,
I mean,
that's an image that or,
you know,
or a picture that I'm looking at,
right as I'm driving and uh and I'm pulling that story out of it.
So,
yeah,
definitely without,
without words.
So from an audience perspective,
and this is what,
what,
what I found as,
as a writer,
um as a writer,
what I've chosen or what's been put upon me is the uh the craft that takes the longest to engage with uh where visual media,
it's instantaneous,
like music like you hear,
you hear a couple notes or you see something visually.
Um There's an immediate response reaction and either rejection or engagement where in writing it's like you have to read it,
you have to process it and then you have to reflect on it before you're really engaging with it.
So it's a,
it's a much longer process.
So,
Kurt,
what's your take?
Yeah,
for me,
you've brought up music it because we did a couple of episodes uh or a couple of episodes ago,
we talked about music.
To me,
it's the lyrics and,
and the melody coming together.
That's where the story with the visuals come together,
right?
It's like the music has the melody line,
but then you have the lyrics that match it with,
with the vision part of it.
To me it's a,
it's a,
I have to see the vision match the narrative.
In other words,
I could have this story.
But when I see an image that attaches to it,
oh my God,
you,
you know,
you brought up about Marvel,
I mean,
think about the imagery of those characters that are part of the story,
part of the narrative.
That's the powerful part of it.
I mean,
I can look at an image from Marvel and say,
oh yeah,
I know exactly who that is without knowing a story without seeing the story.
Then why do people say I saw the movie and the book was better?
Why do you think that's such a common statement?
My daughter is a big reader.
I mean,
she's the kind of person that could actually pick up like a Harry novel,
Harry Potter.
Harry novel.
It was a slip there,
a Harry Potter novel and she can literally read that book in a day.
I could,
I could never do that.
It would take me a month to read every time that she sees the movie.
She goes,
well,
that's not as good as the book.
And I'm like,
well,
why isn't it?
She goes because in her mind,
you're,
you're,
you create a mental picture while you're reading and many times it's better than what they can ever come up with in Hollywood.
Well,
I think part of it too is just simple length.
Right.
You have a 500 page novel like that.
Right.
There,
much more detail can be gotten into and as opposed to a 60 90 you know,
even a three hour movie.
Right.
There's only so much time you have for that.
Yeah.
There,
there's greater constraints from a production standpoint,
I think on,
on doing a feature film,
you know,
you've got,
yeah,
you've got 90 minutes or,
or whatever,
whatever the standard is.
So if they're adapting from a book,
you know,
a book,
you just can keep writing more pages,
you know,
more series.
Yeah.
So,
yeah,
I think,
I think that's one of the challenges uh in that there's,
there's more constraints so the book can have more,
usually has more detail to it,
especially JK Rawlings.
I mean,
she is very detailed in her stories.
Yes.
Right to the,
you know,
the color of the wood and the texture of the door handles and stuff like that.
So that's a good point,
Stephen,
because the visual doesn't necessarily have to be an actual visual.
It could be something created in our mind from reading that it's a,
it's a mental picture that,
that you're making.
But when we talk to Patrick,
you're,
you're gonna understand how his mind works because that's literally what Joseph and I do for him.
We give him that mental picture and he converts it into the beautiful art that he's been doing for many,
many years.
He's just absolutely incredible.
So you guys,
we have our friend and another compatriot,
our art director extraordinaire,
uh Patrick mcilroy.
So a little background on Patrick,
uh he will not tell you this himself,
but he's done a ton of work for Marvel and Disney and Sony.
And he,
I mean,
he really is a,
a incredibly,
not only a talented artist but a visual designer and a visual storyteller himself.
So,
uh Patrick,
great to have you on.
Well,
great to be here.
Thanks.
Uh Yeah,
if you uh ever want me to blow my own horn,
I,
I am happy to,
oh,
well,
by the time we're done,
it's better when someone else gets the ball rolling for me.
Now,
you've just created a visual story for all of us of you blowing your own horn.
Um But we won't go down that rabbit hole.
So Patrick,
we're talking about,
we're talking about visual storytelling.
So I wanna,
I wanna tee this up with you because you are uh now the resident of visual storytelling expert and Patrick,
what we were talking about was um how uh visual storytelling,
visuals and,
and art and all that stuff gives you like music.
When you see it,
it's an immediate engagement or rejection.
Uh But uh you have an immediate uh you know,
visceral reaction,
whether it's looking at a piece of art,
whether it's going to film,
uh watching a film or uh versus,
you know,
versus writing.
And so the way Patrick and I met was,
I was looking for uh folk tellers for the visual,
what,
what this universe would look like.
And I had kind of an idea in my head,
but I ended up,
I interviewed 100 and 50 different artists and then um someone who I worked with on the,
on in my professional work,
uh a colleague said,
hey,
I got a friend I grew up with uh who does,
you know,
he does drawing.
And I was like,
oh OK.
And uh so it totally undersold Patrick.
But then he's like,
yeah,
go to his website and I looked at stuff I was like,
wow,
this is really,
really good.
And then Patrick and I,
we got on the phone and that was,
I believe Patrick,
that was the,
the rouge,
the graphic novel project that we started with.
So that was the whole the Red Dwarf project.
And so I said,
well,
the way I work is you need to read my work first and come back and kind of summarize retell me the story because I caught listening for the echo.
I'll know if he gets like the,
the heart of what I'm getting at in,
in the story that I'm telling.
So he read it,
he came back,
he got it and uh you know,
did a couple comps and it was just incredible and we've been working,
I mean,
it's,
it's pushing 10 years now that we've been working together.
Um And so,
and,
you know,
it was Patrick's artwork that Steve saw in the investor in the investor meeting.
That was like,
yeah,
you got something.
He hadn't even read the stories.
It was the artwork that sold it.
Don't you think Steve or a big part of it?
That was a part of it?
Yeah.
But I mean,
you obviously have to be able to stitch together all of the artwork together to be able to tell the story.
It wasn't just one image,
but I'll let uh Patrick tell that.
Yeah.
So Patrick,
so go ahead,
I'm gonna,
I'm gonna,
you up now.
So as the visual storyteller,
you know,
you came into our world,
what is your take on uh telling stories through uh through uh images?
Well,
it's uh well,
first of all,
it's great to be a part of the group.
I love,
uh I love being uh on,
on this team because uh I think everybody's really motivated to uh to tell good stories and to create a positive entertainment,
you know,
things that are uh gonna make a difference.
So,
you know,
just to start off,
I love,
love being a part of all that.
Um We,
yeah,
we do.
Uh Thanks uh as for myself,
you know,
my earliest professional artistic work was in uh what they used to call edutainment.
So I've always been,
uh,
a big,
uh,
proponent of,
uh,
you know,
stuff that,
uh,
educates entertains.
Uh,
it puts good stuff out into the world and,
and it's,
and it's not just decoration,
it's not just entertainment but it's something that,
that's positive on several levels.
And I think that's probably something that I really,
uh,
attached on to quickly,
you know,
working with JB and reading that first,
uh,
Rouge book that I did was Patrick a lot,
a lot of history and a lot of uh uh uh a lot of how people interact with their history and how that all works together.
Absolutely.
Your background is fascinating to me.
So,
I don't know.
A lot of people don't know this but you have a background in music and you did a lot with uh computers and computer program,
didn't you?
I have a very circuitous route that got me to worry.
Yeah.
What is,
so,
what's that journey?
Well,
how did you get to the point where now you're artist extraordinaire?
Uh uh Well,
thanks.
Well,
let I,
I started uh when I was,
uh you know,
a kid,
uh I had lots of different interests.
Uh Basically everything except mathematics.
That was my one,
but I'm still not very good at.
So don't ask me to work out the tip.
Um But uh when I got to college,
you know,
I was still doing music.
I was in,
you know,
bands and I did a lot of,
uh you know,
at that age,
I was uh being hired by uh recording studios just as a pickup artist,
you know,
to do commercials and things like that.
So I was keeping my hand in music,
but I was an art major and uh I didn't really understand at that point,
the difference between the fine arts and illustration and what I didn't really know was I was far more cut out to do illustration than,
than why is that?
Well,
it's a whole different world in,
in illustration,
you're telling a story,
which as it turned out is,
is really something very important to me and the fine arts especially then I think it may have changed.
Now,
the fine arts was really only uh geared towards explaining your concept.
You know,
you,
you do something meaningless,
you know,
decorating a canvas and your job as the artist was to sort of justify what you'd done and sell it to a gallery based on that.
Uh And I,
I quickly became really disenchanted with that entire world and,
you know,
that I took some good classes,
a lot of life drawing and,
and things like that.
But I,
I kind of learned it wasn't what you were drawing,
it was why you were drawing it.
And that didn't,
didn't sit well with me.
I just,
I wanted to do pictures that,
that told a story.
And so I dropped out of that program and became a music major for my next couple of years and,
you know,
learned a lot of uh uh uh learned,
I learned a lot about different uh musical techniques.
A lot about uh writing music that I hadn't known.
So it was nice to get in,
you know,
get,
get an advanced education in that.
But as it turned out,
as soon as I left college,
uh I took a job where they were putting a computer system in,
this was back in the eighties,
the early days of computing.
And,
uh,
I kind of my way into the computer department and just taught myself how to program.
And next thing I knew I had a 10 year career as a computer programmer.
I ended up working for a British telecom and,
uh,
Chevron,
actually,
my last big job was,
uh,
Chevron when they were doing their Y2K conversion.
Uh,
so,
uh,
that was the early,
early,
uh,
mid nineties,
two K.
Yeah,
the world was gonna shut down,
wasn't it?
Well,
it was,
except the companies all knew that it was going to happen.
So everybody,
like shoring was pouring huge money into reprogramming their systems.
And,
uh,
you know,
it was a case of,
uh,
the news media kind of latched on to the early,
oh,
my God,
something horrible could happen.
And the companies were way ahead of them.
Yeah,
we got this cover.
So Y2K rolled around and the companies all said,
yeah,
you see we did it.
So you,
so from there,
you continued to progress into you clearly,
you,
you moved into the visual arts and like what you talked about illustration because you were driven by storytelling.
Absolutely.
And,
and by then,
uh we're,
we're talking about the late nineties or so,
I,
uh I said,
well,
I really want to get into uh art.
I,
I'm,
you know,
I've done everything I can with programming,
kind of tired of it.
And I realized that the best way to leverage that because I'd been uh sort of teaching myself lots of uh different art techniques on my own.
And then,
uh when uh computer art started becoming a big thing,
you know,
I got myself a Mac and I learned how to do that.
And I realized,
well,
I kind of knew all my contemporaries just getting into uh art,
you know,
out of college are all 10 years younger than me.
And so I need something to uh give me a leg up.
And I realized,
well,
it's the fact that I know how to talk to programmers and I know how to be a liaison.
And pretty quickly I jumped into uh computer art.
But uh within a year I was doing art directing because that was my,
you know,
value that I had II,
I could do art and I could do programming and so I could be a liaison between those things.
So art directing in the multimedia field was really,
uh,
cut out for me.
So we did,
uh,
you know,
lots of those,
uh,
educational games that were big back then,
um,
on CD ROM.
And,
uh,
yeah,
those were the days.
Have,
have you always been able to draw though?
Like,
I mean,
you,
you draw so,
so easily,
I mean,
uh,
the,
the detail,
I mean,
have you always had that natural ability to be able to draw?
I,
I'd say I've,
uh,
I've always had the natural,
um,
willingness to draw because I,
I'm sort of of the opinion that there's like two levels of talent.
There's the one level of talent,
which is what I have,
which is just the willingness to try and do it over and over to practice and practice and enjoy the process.
Because if you don't enjoy that process,
you'll never have the quote talent.
You know,
you'll draw a couple of things and say that's ok and,
you know,
you'll go on to something else,
but if you really like it,
you'll really work hard at it and then you'll have that level of talent.
Now,
the other level is genius,
which I don't have and very few people have,
I don't know about that.
There are people who,
you know,
they can think in ways that the rest of us can't.
And that's what I'd qualify as genius.
It's a good,
that's a good point because the way that I see that you do things I think that you are a genius by the way.
Um And the reason being is because uh from a spatial relations perspective,
you have that down.
I mean,
when you draw something,
it is perspective,
I mean,
everything comes to focal point and everything logically makes sense.
And me with my engineering,
left-handed engineering brain on when I see what you do like,
you know,
just like when we did,
you know flex man,
um it all made sense to me like,
and there's a very few artists and people that I worked through,
worked with uh throughout the years that that do what you do.
So Patrick,
this is Curt.
It's an interesting journey you've had that you started off as an art major jump tracks over to music,
got into technology and then you got back into what your heart made,
what made your heart sing,
right?
They're drawing the art and what you applied technology to you,
everything along your journey and watching it,
you know,
you hear this,
I'm sure you're very familiar with it.
The starving artist,
you know,
comment at what point did you realize you could start making a living by doing this?
Well,
I,
I,
I've always um been the sort of person who and,
and for good or bad.
I,
I would say there's a lot of people who would,
who would look at this as a bad thing.
I always have thought of uh making a living at something as being sort of the,
the ultimate uh uh proof that you're doing well.
And maybe that's another reason I wasn't cut out for the fine arts community.
Um So when I decided to jump from doing programming to doing art,
you know,
I put together a plan,
I said,
you know,
I,
I went to artists that I knew who were making a living at it.
Uh 11 wonderful woman in particular who was at uh uh bun doing a lot of their stuff like uh thief.
Uh What is that?
Uh,
the uh,
oh the,
the thief that jumps around,
bro.
I'm not familiar with,
bro.
Oh,
got it.
Ok.
Anyway,
and she did,
she did Carmen San Diego.
She did a lot of things like that and she was working on computer art and so I,
I kind of went to her as a,
as a,
uh you know,
mentor and got a lot of ideas about how the industry worked and,
uh,
you know,
started dipping my toe in and there was actually about six months where I was working my computer job all day and then,
uh doing art all night uh on paid jobs.
Uh because,
uh I believe that when you uh get a job with a real deadline and uh you know,
payment and people need you to do it,
it's going to focus your attention a lot more.
And so as far as being a,
being a starving artist,
I say,
well,
if you're a starving artist,
you're probably just kind of wandering around doing whatever you feel like.
And you're not gonna get a lot better quickly.
But if you get a job with a deadline,
you're going to have to do it or starve and it really focuses your attention when you know,
your,
your rent money is coming from it.
And so,
uh I had that plan and,
you know,
within,
within a year,
I was doing art uh full time and haven't looked back since what,
what got you into comics and comic books.
Well,
that,
that is probably my,
the money as a,
as a kid.
I just loved comics.
Uh And my earliest art,
you know,
gods were all in the comics field,
artists doing comics.
And uh no,
that's always been a uh you know,
a boil on my neck ready to pop.
Oh Thanks for that visual visual storytelling.
Hold on a second.
Yeah.
There you go.
We just got,
what's your favorite comic?
What was the one that really took you over the edge early on?
You said you've always been a fan?
Gosh,
uh uh I was uh reading comics uh and collecting them and I ran across this artist from the sixties uh Jim Strano.
And uh he was just a really uh experimental artist who brought a lot of the uh the pop art and art movements into his uh comics art and his storytelling was dynamic.
And uh I just started,
you know,
going back and collecting all of his books and then seeing what he was doing uh in the seventies and eighties,
which was uh he had moved more into uh illustration,
book cover illustration.
He had a,
a magazine called Media Scene and I just got into everything he did.
So I'd have to say he was probably my,
my main biggest inspiration.
So anyone who's interested should look up Jim Strano quite a style.
So Patrick,
which,
which comics did he draw for.
He uh had a kind of a mercurial career.
He bounced around over the course of uh like five or six years at Marvel uh doing whatever he felt like.
And he really only did about 30 less than 40 actual individual issues of things.
But what he started out uh doing was uh he uh took over very early on the Nick Fury Agent of Shield strip.
Uh He did that book for uh just a maybe a couple of years.
That was his earliest thing and he really set the style for all of Marvel's uh you know,
uh super spy stuff.
And then he,
and then he jumped to uh Captain America.
He did only three issues of Captain America,
but he basically redefined the character at that point.
And then he started doing just a little of this and a little of that.
Marvel had a horror magazine.
He did one short story and that,
that is still thought of as,
as like a,
a benchmark in,
in horror comics uh design.
And he did a love story comic where he did it all with this pop art style that no one had ever thought to use in comics.
And he would just bounce around and uh it was a short but amazing career in comics.
So,
so Patrick,
so this is,
this is a good segue because one of the things that we've talked about in bits and pieces and,
and you've talked about is,
is sort of that balance between following your,
your creativity and your passion and then the process and,
and the business of it all.
And uh you had,
you know,
you had said this,
um you know,
you were passionate about comics and,
and so you,
and you wanted to be telling stories and that's what kind of like moved your art,
what I've always been interested in your ability to take,
to channel that creativity into uh a process where you can,
you can create uh standard outputs uh in a timeline,
you know,
on a,
on a deadline,
on a budget.
Uh Can you talk a little bit about your process?
Because I've always been fascinated with how you,
you know,
how you end up working with us with what we give you.
Well,
the uh well,
the other side of,
of uh what I've uh been doing is we've talked about the multimedia and the comics.
I've also always just uh been fascinated with illustrations,
you know,
the standalone illustrations that tell a story with one picture and,
and that's,
that's most of what I've really been doing other than our first uh big graphic novel,
I've been doing a lot of uh illustrations for folk tellers,
uh you know,
the covers uh and the interior illustrations.
And as far as the process for that goes,
it's,
um in,
in some ways it has to do with being a reader my whole life,
you know,
sort of a voracious reader.
And I've always uh loved the storytelling uh world and when it comes to drawing,
uh as I've said,
my,
my passion is,
is telling that story.
So the very first thing I always do is I'll try to zero in on part of the story that is,
that is visual and,
and doesn't just give an illustration like a character standing there and looking cool or an interesting,
you know,
creature or background or something.
I always try to give the picture a feeling that there was story before it and there's going to be story after it and my action is leading from what happened before to what's going to happen next.
Well,
that's how do you do that?
I mean,
that's,
that's amazing thought.
But how do you do that visually?
What do you,
I,
I can say just by,
you know,
looking at all that,
the artwork that he's made for us over the years,
all of his artwork is dynamic,
isn't it?
But how do you,
how do you get that feeling?
Like you just described Patrick where there's a story before and there's a story after from what you see.
Well,
as Steve mentions,
the dynamics is,
is a big part of it.
If you,
if you give your picture a sense of uh motion and even though it's standing still,
you can give it a sense of kinetics by how you keep the,
the lines and,
and how people are balanced or unbalanced in the picture and how the composition is balanced or unbalanced.
You can have a very formalistic composition that's uh that looks like it's real stable,
so to speak.
Uh or you can have an unbalanced composition that looks like it's falling off the page and going somewhere.
And so visually,
you like to do that.
But also with,
with storytelling comes the idea that you want to put pieces of,
of the world that you're in,
of the story that you're telling,
you know,
people are interacting with each other,
they're not standing there.
They're uh they look like they could be talking to each other about something or the world that you're in.
Uh you know,
be it a,
you know,
say you're on a mountainside or you're in a swamp or you're somewhere else.
The world should look like you as the viewer could walk into it and say,
oh,
there's something around the corner there,
I wonder what it is and the characters are looking over there.
And so as the viewer,
you wanna know what are those characters looking at?
Well,
it's interesting Patrick,
because I remember as a kid growing up looking at Spiderman comics and Spiderman never looked like he was standing still,
right?
He,
he looked like he was always moving,
moving one way or another,
right?
Something was always,
always moving.
Yeah,
Marvel always had that uh what a very uh huge kinetic emotion going on.
Even if you're just standing there,
you're standing with drama.
What did you do for Marvel,
by the way,
I uh worked in their uh marketing department.
I was a freelancer and I was mainly working on the Marvel Style guide.
So it was uh sort of uh highly rendered uh individual pictures of,
of various characters,
you know,
like I did a whole bunch of thor but then I did a lot of uh you know,
various bad guys and good guys,
uh a few silver surfer,
you know,
things like that.
And that was used in the Marvel Style guide,
which was what they would give to people who were uh uh licensing the Marvel characters.
And so those books they got say you have to go by this official version of the character.
Uh Then I also did some other point of sale marketing things.
I i it's been many years,
there was a time where,
where this was like a cultural thing I could mention and,
and everybody of a certain age would go.
Oh,
I remember that was,
uh,
in Target.
They had,
uh,
when the Hulk movie,
the second Hulk movie came out where that was 2008 or nine.
they had these,
uh,
footprints on the floor.
They were like big stickers that,
that Target would put on the floor,
that sort of lead to the toy section and they were the Hulks feet.
Uh That's cool,
tearing up the floor.
I did those as a lot of people of a certain age,
I can say that they go,
I remember that I was just gonna say about my size.
Yeah.
So yeah,
a lot of uh point of sale things.
Uh Special,
special projects.
Yeah,
that kind of thing.
So I was on contract with them for quite a while.
Awesome.
Very cool.
Well,
Patrick,
we appreciate your time today.
Um Just before we,
before we let you go.
Um I mean,
and by the way,
what you said in this uh in this chat was it's gold.
I mean,
for,
for visual story,
we really sell,
just leave like leave the listeners with uh it's a different point of view.
I mean,
what you what you shared,
it's a different point of view to look at the world through a visual storytelling lens.
So for the people that are listening,
like,
what are some best practices?
Whether you're a whether you're an artist or not.
Um What's some ways that,
uh you know,
you could,
you could adjust your lens to look at uh stories in a more visual way.
Hm.
How about that?
How about that?
Yeah.
Don't,
don't try to stump the guest again.
No.
See Kurt would give him a lay up.
You know,
that's the team.
I have a,
I know he can answer it.
Go ahead.
Uh I,
I think uh I think a big part of it if people want to um do visuals to go along with stories the way I do.
Um It,
it,
it doesn't exactly answer your question,
but I think it's very important as a,
as an aspect of that uh is to read,
read the story,
imagine what's happening and then allow yourself to do things that you wouldn't normally think of,
allow yourself to be creative and allow yourself to think of stupid things,
allow yourself to do things that you wouldn't normally think of.
Uh sketch a lot,
do a lot of little tiny drawings,
never spend too long on any one thing and come up with lots of different ideas and allow yourself to fail along the way uh and keep,
uh you know,
keep an open mind that don't ever stop yourself before.
You've tried it.
How about that?
Yeah.
That's awesome.
That's sage advice.
So where can people see your work?
Of course,
they can go to uh folk Tillers Studios dot com or folk tillers dot com and see Patrick's work.
But where can they see like the,
the full depth and breadth of,
of your art?
I've,
I've got a,
uh,
a website that has a number of pieces on it and I probably ought to update it more often says everybody with a website.
Uh it's uh uh mega flow graphics dot com,
megaflow graphics dot com.
And it's got a lot of my work there.
It's got uh comics work,
uh book illustration work uh covers and it's even got a little section with some of my multimedia.
Excellent.
Well,
again,
Patrick,
thanks for being on and uh we appreciate everything that you do and uh we're so happy that you're part of the folk teller family.
Well,
thanks guys.
And uh this was great to be a part of,
I've been listening to your podcast since it started and it's been a lot of great entertainment.
So you guys are or something.
All right,
we'll talk to you soon.
All right,
thanks Patrick.
Nice to meet you.
Take care,
take care,
Patrick.
OK,
bye bye.
Cheers.
All right.
So,
uh again,
you know,
Patrick,
he said he wasn't,
uh I guess any genius never calls himself a genius.
It has to be put upon him.
Yeah,
talented,
very talented.
So if you get a chance,
check out his work,
I mean,
if you look at our stuff,
you'll see it.
But uh mega flow graphics dot com but anyway,
so this got me thinking there's a term called visual literacy.
There's a really cool video out there.
Uh Martin Scorsese did about uh the necessity for visual literacy and he gives a really good description of it.
You can,
if you Google Martin Scorsese visual literacy,
you'll find it.
It's I think it's like a seven or eight minute video,
but he talks about um it's important to understand uh the visual medium.
And I really think in modern storytelling,
you absolutely have to.
Uh because people are reading,
I think people are not reading less,
but they're reading differently,
they're reading in smaller chunks and what you're seeing like,
like,
well,
look at a magazine,
it's more pictures and text now,
uh websites,
more pictures than text.
It's like minimize the text,
maximize the visual and the imagery.
And that's kind of like,
you know,
modern,
you know,
modern storytelling is that it is that the problem the problem with that is,
is uh images don't index text into search engines.
So you can't find anything if your whole entire website is just based on images.
So from a digital perspective,
that's not a good action plan.
You have to,
you really have to have a blend between the text and the story for you to be able to do well on the web and be successful.
That's great insight from the tech guy.
It really is.
So from the OK.
And that is,
but from the storytelling side.
What's the right balance?
Yeah.
For me,
it's,
it's like,
I think we,
our brains are being constantly rewired,
right?
If you look at over the decades,
over the centuries,
how visual has become even more important in the last 2030 years,
we're,
I mean,
we're getting rewired.
My,
our,
I,
I truly believe our brains are being rewired by the use of technology and things that we're doing now that we're becoming more visually uh a astute that,
that visual is our.
Before in education,
there used to be different types of learning,
right?
You're an auditory learner,
you had a visual learner,
you had somebody who was kinesthetic,
right?
They have to,
I I,
in my opinion,
I see a shift more and more to visual that people are visual that they've learned through visual.
And so that's an important part of the storytelling because without that,
um you know,
like you said,
people are reading differently now.
And I think in,
in my opinion,
they're reading more visually as a result.
Look at Power Point for an example,
like when they invented powerpoint,
it was supposed to be very visual and there's only supposed to be a small amount of text,
but like one point that Power point,
not power points.
And so what ended up happening is,
you know,
a lot of industry,
they,
you know,
they,
they started to,
to use it like it was a book and I've said to those death by powerpoint presentations.
But that's a prime example of,
of,
you know,
visual literacy.
That's,
that's a really good example.
In fact,
I've told clients,
uh powerpoint is not a prompter,
right?
That's a good way to put it.
I mean,
like,
put it all in perspective and there's like uh that 10,
2030 rule for Power Point,
it's supposed to be,
I'm gonna probably get this wrong,
but it's supposed to be no more than 10 slidess,
no more than uh 20 point font.
And the 30 is uh like no more than 30 years old,
30 years old.
But that it's basically keep it short,
keep it short and sweet and highly visual.
And Steve this got me thinking about when we do Hollywood pitch decks because this is to me visual storytelling and what it means in the modern world is the visuals are the gateway to a deeper experience and I'll explain that.
So a good example is these pitch decks we have to put together the initial pitch check.
I mean,
we're like,
you're consolidating,
it's very few words,
but it's highly visual and it's dynamic visuals because you're trying to get people that don't know.
Yeah,
I mean,
they have the attention span of a nat.
So it's like,
OK,
this is bright and pretty and there's movement and,
and there's uh there's a little blurb.
So I know what's going on and the whole idea of the pitch deck is all right to get them to say,
yeah,
let me see more.
Let me see the script or let me see the books and then they'll go into the text.
They wanna go deeper,
but it has to tell the story.
It does.
That's the challenge.
It's like I,
I just read um it was the description of what they said.
Uh The guy was saying uh he was a famous poet and I can't think of it.
It was like uh a great poem is maximum impact in minimum space.
And I think that's what visuals do for you.
Well,
as an example,
when I do keynote presentations,
I,
I use powerpoint or different formats,
but a lot of visuals,
I I'd say literally 85 to 90% of my presentation from the Power Point side is visual rules every once in a while,
a few words,
some statistics,
uh some video as well.
But for that reason,
right,
people are looking to consume in different ways as a result and,
and you know,
the storytelling can come verbally in my case.
And I,
but,
but like to your point,
Joseph,
that,
that people are reading differently,
I guess in your opinion,
what are the different ways that people are reading this as far as that literacy,
that storytelling,
visual literacy?
What is it?
Well,
I think like,
OK,
so I go back to,
you know,
magazines and periodicals.
Um the articles are shorter there,
there's more,
there's more pictures.
In fact,
when you hear people talk about actually reading a novel or reading a book or reading for pleasure.
It's like,
uh,
they have to set the time aside and it's like,
uh,
you know,
I want my,
my coffee and my blanket and it's,
it's like a comfort thing and it's like something like that.
They have to set aside where before you had to,
you were reading a lot just to get through your day,
whether it was your business or whatever.
Um So,
you know,
I think that's the technology definitely like the reading on the screen and that's changed everything.
So now you've really got to consolidate,
like Steve said,
you still have to tell the story.
Um But now you have to,
it has to be more highly visual and less and less text.
Um And there's more graphic novels now too,
right?
Yeah,
that's another thing.
Yeah.
So wrapping all this up,
I mean,
we again,
we could,
we could just go on forever,
but a visual storytelling.
What are,
what are we walking away with?
I mean,
what,
what do people need to be sensitive or looking out for?
Yeah,
right off the bat.
I know first and foremost is that there has to,
it's best to have a visual attached to the narrative.
In other words,
if I have a narrative,
it's best to attach some type of visual to that.
Uh you know,
Patrick talked about his gift of,
of drawing and what he does with graphics,
whether it be from the computer or with his hand.
Um That,
that's an important part of that story is seeing that visual,
like you said,
um the,
it's amazing that he talks about the story that comes before that visual and afterwards,
by looking at that visual,
that's great,
Steve.
What about you?
I think the future is gonna be very interesting in visual storytelling because we,
we did a podcast on A I and A I is gonna have a huge impact on,
on what happens in the future,
you know,
like um applications like mid journey and um you know,
and uh GP T four,
you know,
and the,
and the combination of those,
those technologies together,
I mean,
things are gonna change guys.
Yeah,
quickly.
For,
for me it's the balance between the visual and the text of the narrative,
the narrative.
So um and,
and how you got to look at it every iteration because it,
whoever your audience is and whatever you're trying to do,
you're gonna have to strike that balance.
So,
um all right guys.
Another good one.
Thanks for Patrick.
Oh Yeah,
cool.
Yeah.
Um So everyone check out mega flow graphics dot com if you want to see Patrick stuff.
And uh thanks for letting us be in your ears.