Understanding Site-Specific Building Challenges

Panelized Prefab Kit Home Building Show

Show Notes: The discussion delves into the intricacies of building custom homes, focusing on the importance of understanding building codes, site-specific applications, and thorough planning. It explores how universal codes adapt to different geographical conditions, such as hurricanes, snow loads, and seismic activity, which influence design and construction. The conversation emphasizes the value of detailed preparation, cost savings, and quality control in personalized homebuilding. It also highlights the collaborative process between builders and clients to meet specific needs and navigate potential challenges with expertise and experience.

Transcript:

Steve Tuma: Even though we’re doing the plans and supplying the Panelize home package, it’s having the vision of what they’re looking for that can help us design it a little better, make something a little better, give flexibility for future use.

Interviewer: Hello everybody and welcome to episode 59 of the Panelize Prefab Kit Home Building Show. With me today, as he usually is, the president and founder of Landmark Home and Land Company, a company which has been helping people build their new homes where they want, exactly as they want, nationwide and around the globe since 1993, Mr. Steve Tuma. Steve, how’s it going, amigo?

Steve Tuma: It’s another good day. As always, it’s always a good day to start building a home or designing it or talking about it to figure it out for a future build.

Interviewer: You’re always so positive, and I’m sure that your customers appreciate that. Positivity is good.

Steve Tuma: Well, it’s interesting. You know, building a house, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot, you know, some decisions, some, you know, just making sure the house is right for your family, some budgeting and a lot of detail. So it can be a lot of work, but we help customers along so that they can sort it out and make sure everything comes together for them.

Interviewer: Good. It’s as good a description of what Landmark Home and Land Company does as any that I can think of.

Steve Tuma: Yeah, once someone said, “Hey, what do you do?” It’s like, “Hey, we help good people build cool houses.” It kind of gets to a simple point. That’s the way we look at it.

Interviewer: Simple is good, man. Simple is good. Today, I’d like to dive into a subject that many would rather avoid probably, but I know you’ll be able to give us a lot of takeaways that’ll remove a lot of misconceptions, I guess is what I’m trying to say, and tackle any misinformation that’s out there about panelized homes, etc. And the subject is new home building pitfalls today and how Landmark Home and Land Company can help potential customers deal with some of those possible pitfalls. So are you good to dive in on that?

Steve Tuma: Yeah, this is interesting. This will be kind of a different spin. It’s not really spin. It’s facts of what people run into and the process we go through. It’s impossible to go over every single pitfall, but we can go through the process of what we do to help people through so they understand what they’re doing.

Interviewer: Sure. So let’s dive in. We know, of course, that Landmark does a lot more than just design the panelized home packages, but is there a start to finish process that Landmark utilizes to help homeowner builders avoid, you know, some of those bonehead mistakes that, you know, when building, say, your first panelized home?

Steve Tuma: Yeah, there are, and it’s a relatively informal process where we talk to the customer, get to know what they need, what it is they’re doing, what’s the reason they’re building a home, do they have the land, do they have it financed, are they paying cash, just kind of get out an overall picture of what it is that they’re wanting to do. Because someone doing their first starter home—you know, maybe they just got married and the kid’s on the way—compared to someone that’s retiring and downsizing or someone that’s in the middle of life with kids and they’re stepping, you know, increasing the size of the home or the features of the home or maybe just moving to a different community. There’s also people moving the in-laws in or the parents in, other people with home offices, home businesses, home hobbies, so it’s kind of a little different idea of, you know, what the end goal is for a customer. So we’d spend some time with them to find out exactly what it is, and it’s pretty interesting. You know, some people are building their, you know, their dream home. We have one customer, Lee, he’s had this idea since he was 15 that he’s gonna have 300 acres and a big chalet on it, and he’s getting to the retirement phase. He found 330 acres for his dream home, and we’re helping him do it. So the design elements and the different features that he might be looking at might be different than if he was, you know, say newly married and wanting more of a starter home. So there are different priorities there.

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: So on the home he’s doing for his, you know, his final home as he calls it, he wants a lot of architectural features that, just to him through life, he’s grown to appreciate. But if he was, you know, just getting going, just having kids, he might need something, you know, people want, you know, low maintenance. You know, so that kind of spans it. But that’s the overall thing—find out what people want, what’s the reason, where are they building? A lot of our customers have unique pieces of land with great views they want to take care of or settings that they just want to enhance.

Interviewer: Sure.

Steve Tuma: So that’s what it is—just kind of find out what it is. Because amazingly, and it’s real common with the internet and everything out there, there’s just a lot of misinformation out there. So if someone’s trying to sell you windows, they’re gonna tell you, “Hey, the best windows are—you always should consider your windows the only thing important are windows.” You know, of course, there’s something there where we look at, “Hey, what’s the overall project? What are you trying to achieve?” You know, so it’s not just the house, it’s the environment where you’re building in. You know, whether it’s a city lot or big acreage or, you know, a subdivision in the country or subdivision in a municipal area, and that’s it. So just kind of get a grasp of what they’re trying to achieve because that helps us, in a sense, kind of reverse engineer the idea.

Interviewer: Interesting.

Steve Tuma: So if it’s a home where it’s gonna be their first home and their family’s gonna grow or in-laws are gonna move in, we could work with them on different concepts and just kind of understand what it is that they need. You know, that also gets into one of the bigger things that people don’t think about. You know, people generally think about, “Hey, I want this window, I like this kitchen, I want this bathroom, you know, I need this type of a great room, we need this garage or a basement for future, you know, a future workshop or something.” But something that’s really, really—it’s kind of obvious but people don’t think about—is how does the house fit on the land? Like if you’re on the slope, you know, the side of a hill, you know, there are some places where land is literally flat or there’s such a small slope you can call it flat, but then you go to hilly areas and where there’s a hill they might consider it flat compared to a cliff. But you could have something like, you know, say you had a simple ranch home 24 feet deep and 40 feet wide, there could be a three, four, five, six-foot drop in the 24-foot depth. So maybe you want to do a walkout basement, maybe it only works where there’s a crawlspace, maybe you’re in an area where slabs are there. So we’d have to make sure that it fits so you can access the house, make sure it accesses the garage. And then also zoning concerns. You know, most building departments have setbacks, so if you have a lot that’s a certain distance, the setback from the front yard, the side yards, and then the rear would be dictated, and you have to build within them. Sometimes there’s easements, power line easements, easements for neighbors’ access or something that someone would have to work through. So you got to make sure it fits on the land. And these are all the kind of, you know, details that people generally, they know if they have to be involved with it, but it’s not the cool, exciting stuff to talk about with your friends.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Steve Tuma: You know, to talk to your friend about, “Oh, I got a five-foot building setback,” you know, yeah, it’s cool, it’s part of the project. It’s not sexy, but it is more important than a lot of other things.

Interviewer: Yeah, I mean…

Steve Tuma: You know, and a guy’s gonna be like, “Hey, I got my man cave, I’m getting my car lift.”

Interviewer: Yeah.

Steve Tuma: You know, wife’s letting me get another convertible. You know, that type of thing, you know. Or people will be like, “Hey, we have a gaming room, a home theater for the family, a craft room, whatever it might be.” So those are the things that are there, but in order to, you know, have the house get built properly, you’ve got to think of these things. And that’s where we can help is, you know, make sure it fits on the land. Is there slope of the land? And that’s very key information because we’ve had a lot of people that find that just judging land yourself, just looking at something going, “Oh, that’s a four-foot drop.” And later, when someone’s out there and surveying it, they find out it’s an eight-foot drop. So that’s how the foundation design gets into the grading and drainage plans or civil engineering in areas where the site might be a little more complex. So since people don’t really know about it, it’s not something that’s generally talked about, it’s not the hot topic among, you know, friends that might be building. It’s items that we find are very important that can really, you know, kind of throw you a curveball. So it’s good to review this. And then it’s also good to have accurate information. It’s amazing on land, and it happens to me, if we were on a piece of land and we said, “Hey, you know, what kind of drop do you think it is from there to here?” You know, I might say four feet. Well, the surveyor goes out and says seven. Well, that could be the difference of a walkout basement or a crawlspace.

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: Or a lookout basement. And it’s kind of nice to know because generally if someone wants to build a basement to have a walkout, it’s considered to be, you know, a nice advantage and a great design feature and it’s affordable, you know, square footage as well.

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: So that’s the thing where we work with people to kind of take the idea of what they’re trying to do. And then you work with the land and the home design to kind of optimize it for them. And, you know, it’s just a conversation, just getting ideas. It’s not a bunch of technical stuff. It’s just general ideas of, “Hey, you know, your family’s growing. What does that mean? You know, are you getting two kids, three kids? You know, what are the concerns that people are looking for?” And that’s where we can help them because there really isn’t a source that I know of that kind of solves all issues. You’ve just got to talk about it. And as you get into different parts of the conversation, different details come out. People will say things like, “Oh yeah, we have two kids, but after the kids are five, we’re going to get a dog.” Well, what are you getting? A Great Dane or a Bulldog, whatever it is. You know, someone will say, “Hey, you know, my parents might move in. We need another parking space.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Steve Tuma: You know, just little stuff. And sometimes it’s easier to design in when you’re doing the home than to come back and add it or have to rebuild something, you know, down the road. So it’s just a little bit of thinking. And we’re here to help.

Interviewer: Yeah, I would imagine it helps you guys at Landmark Home and Land Company as well to provide a better service. The more information you can hand down to the customers and, you know, to diffuse some of the misinformation that a customer might have when they come to you.

Steve Tuma: Right. And that’s exactly it. Even though we’re doing the plans and supplying the panelized home package, it’s having the vision of what they’re looking for that can help us design it a little better, make something a little better, give flexibility for future use. And that’s the important thing about it. We’ve been doing it for over 30 years. This customer might be the first time, maybe it’s the fifth time. But even so, different houses, different land, different communities, there’s different details. And just to bring up, you know, there’s homeowner associations. Some of them are very simple. Others are extremely strict. So we can help them navigate those guidelines. There’s sometimes historic committees. You know, there could be a whole variety of different things. A lot of the areas where you’re building by water, it’s more restrictive now and how close you can build to water compared to it. People have land and flood zones are changing. You know, so to get a flood certification is important, not just for the building department but for your homeowners insurance.

Interviewer: Right. I never thought of that.

Steve Tuma: Yeah. Right. So it’s little stuff like this that makes a lot of sense when you bring it up. But it’s not what you’re thinking about when you’re flipping through plans on our website. You’re going, “Oh, do we want the ranch? Do we want the two-story?” You’re not thinking about flood zones. Now, I don’t want to make it so complex by bringing all these things up to say that all these things have to be reviewed with every project. Not all pieces of land have homeowner associations. Very few of them have historic committees. I’m just saying if someone needs that type of help, we’re very experienced in it and can help them navigate. So we kind of become the one-stop shop. But also, I think we’ve got a lot of information where someone could get an idea and formulate a plan of attack, in a sense, of how we’re going to go through, design the home, work with the land, go through permitting so that there’s a definite plan. And they’ll find it’ll really bring them to ease to have a grip of what’s going on. Because you go talk to five of your friends that have built a house, you’re going to get probably six different stories and what’s right. So that’s how we can help the customers. And it’s really, really important stuff just to take the time up front to get to know and then also for customers to understand what we can do so that if they have a question they can just give me a call and say, “Hey, what about this? How do we find out where our utilities are? Where do I want my electric panel? Hey, there’s mini-split, you know, heating and cooling systems compared to conventional HVAC. You know, just different things. Or, you know, hey, my building department, they’re asking me about calculations for HVAC design.” You know, it’s rare but it’s starting to happen a little bit more and more. And I think what’s happening is some of the building departments are finding that maybe not all people that are doing the work are really up to speed with the modern codes and the way that building department chooses to enforce something. We all hate the minutiae, but without the minutiae things don’t happen. Things don’t work out right.

Interviewer: Well, that’s what it is.

Steve Tuma: One of our customers way back—and man, this was late 90s—he was an engineer for Ford and he said, “We always find the devil’s in the details.” So it’s real easy to have the broad stroke: “I want a 2,000 square foot two-story home with a three-car garage right in the middle of this five-acre plot.” Well, how does all this work? Are there water table issues? What type of foundation? Are there soil conditions? Are utilities there? You know, stuff like that. So it’s one of these things that I think people will actually start to appreciate it once they have control and understanding. But amazingly, a lot of our customers are already up to speed on that. But if someone isn’t, we’re here to fill in the blanks, you know, where they need help.
Interviewer: Do you find people do a lot of research before they come and give you a call?

Steve Tuma: Yes. The majority of customers are pretty up to speed. They’ve spoken to the building department. They know zoning. They understand, you know, hey, they can put a certain size house here. The house has to face a certain way. But they may not have exact specifics like a survey. They may know that their lot is 50 by 100. Well, maybe it’s really 50 feet two and a half inches by 99 feet seven and three-quarters of an inch. And some people say, “Well, it’s close enough. Just do a 50 by 100 lot.” Well, with different overhangs and setbacks, it’s better to work off the exact. Because we’ve run into situations where people have different surveys and some more counties, more in the western parts of the United States, they’re actually checking your building site plan with the recorded description and the county. And some people are finding that what they think they bought is slightly different than what the county has. It usually always works out, but it’s stuff that you want to double check.

Interviewer: Yeah. It sounds to me like what you’re saying is that the customer’s overall input at the outset is so important. And if somebody does do their research, I mean, that’s got to be a really nice thing, you know.

Steve Tuma: You know, it’s nice, but I think they also find it rewarding. We’re doing a very complex home in northern Michigan and the person’s just the type of person that likes to know the details. And there’s a lot going on in this house with engineering, setbacks, grading plans, you know, just a lot of stuff. And I think even though it’s a lot of work, he’s going, “This is pretty amazing.”

Interviewer: Yeah.

Steve Tuma: And so not everyone just builds the house for the purpose of having a place to sleep. A lot of it’s to control the quality, control the budget, know where their money’s being spent, and know that it’s being built right because they directly control and can inspect what’s going on before everything moves along to the next stage.

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: So that’s a lot of it. A lot of the customers are building out of, I think it’s pride, personal accomplishment. And what’s interesting about this is we have a lot of single ladies building houses. They do a great job. So then there’s a lot of projects where, you know, in a husband-wife situation where the wife is the driving force in it. Sometimes it’s the husband, sometimes it’s both. You know, they each kind of do it. So it’s not something where, “Hey, you’ve got to be the, you know, the big builder to do this.” I actually find that people that just understand the management, the paying attention, the inquisitive, the wanting to understand how to do this, it’s fine. And I think what’s happening is there’s a lot of interest in building a house. It’s actually really cool. And one thing that, you know, we don’t really emphasize but it makes sense is if someone is able to build their own home and save a tremendous amount of money, if they have a mortgage, you know, say saving $50,000 or $100,000 over the course of a loan, that generally is two to three times the amount. So if someone saves $100,000, that may save them $300,000 in the overall payments of the loan. It’s a tremendous financial advantage. So it’s not just that, “Hey, you’re paying less for it.” It’s that, you know, long term, you know, payment to the bank. Although a lot of our customers are paying cash, but it gives them, you know, opportunity cost to invest the savings someplace else.

Interviewer: Yeah. You know, we never like to generalize, but you brought up, you know, over the last 30 years that you’ve, that Landmark Home and Land Company has been in existence. Yeah, again, don’t like to generalize, but most of the women I’ve known in my lifetime are very detail-oriented.

Steve Tuma: That’s why.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Steve Tuma: Multitasking too.

Interviewer: Multitaskers, yeah. I’m not good at that, but have you noticed over the 30 years that the numbers are starting to really jump? Women who are even single women coming in and deciding they’re gonna build a home. Has that number jumped?

Steve Tuma: You know, I don’t actually track it like by a chart. I would say off a gut feeling, yes. We’ve had a lot of women get involved. In fact, I was talking to a lady, she’s building a house in Texas, and she said, “Hey, you treated me well, this and this and that. How many women have built the homes?” And I said, “Man, how many are like the lead on the project?” You know, type of thing.

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: I would say it’s 40 to 50 percent.

Interviewer: Yeah, that’s pretty good.

Steve Tuma: Give or take there. So what was weird is I went to our Better Business Bureau reviews, and at this current time, you know, this podcast is gonna be out there for a while, years, but at this current time, I went to our last six five-star ratings—they’re all five-star ratings—and five of the six were females that were heading the project.

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: Which was kind of cool. I never realized it. I looked at, “Hey, customers,” you know, all types of people that just help them get their family a good home. But what that brings up is different people look at different angles.

Interviewer: Sure.

Steve Tuma: And I haven’t really figured out who looks at this, but some people are very detailed into the mechanicals. You know, maybe in their life they’re more mechanical people. Other people, if they’re more decorators, are into the look. Other people, if they’re in the utility, are like, “Hey, how am I gonna access my basement for my roof?”

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: Or some people just have big families. “Hey, where’s my family gonna park and how are, you know, a dozen people gonna stay at my house, you know, through the holidays?”

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: So that’s what we’re able to do. So we’ll help anyone that has an interest. It’s kind of cool. It’s very cool. We’ve been doing it over 30 years and it’s still exciting every single time to talk to a customer, deliver the house package, and then just randomly get pictures. You know, there’s a picture of a family going, “Hey, here we are, we’re moving in,” or, “Hey, the dog’s first run around the yard.”

Interviewer: That’s great.

Steve Tuma: You know, things like that. We had a customer, he adopted a big mastiff, a huge, huge dog, and he bought 30 acres in the middle of Colorado in a valley area and that’s what it was. He wanted the dog to run around. He wanted to have his spot for his friends to come over. He was a retired military person and wanted to, you know, have get-togethers and I guess his friends would bring dogs. They’d all run around, they’d barbecue, have a good time, and, you know, move on from there.

Interviewer: This is kind of off topic, but we’re talking about the 30-year existence of Landmark. How similar are states in, let’s say, building codes or overall, you know, just making it easy to build a house? Are there more difficult states or are they all pretty much—the building codes are all sort of universal, or is everything just the Wild West out there?

Steve Tuma: Well, it’s interesting because, you know, now the codes are pretty much universal—the IRC or the IBC. There’s different years that states may apply, you know, to their particular plan check. Some are a current one. So the codes are kind of the same. The difference is in the code application to your building site and then also what I call selective enforcement at the building department.

Interviewer: Right.

Steve Tuma: So the code application at your building site is, you know, for simple conversation, let’s say that you were to build a 1,500 square foot boxy ranch and you were to do it in Iowa, and in general, Iowa’s a flat piece of land. So it’s relatively simple. That foundation is a certain thing. But if you said, “Hey, we just decided to move to Key West and we have an oceanfront property,” suddenly that house is going to be on pilings, maybe 12, 15 feet out of the ground. So even though the house may look the same, the structure to withstand hurricanes and be put on a piling system would be different. And then I think being in Key West, people are gonna be like, “Hey, we should put a different type of a porch on there.” Or, “Hey, we can’t have an attached garage. Our house is up in the air on the pilings. We’re gonna have breakaway walls on the lower level.”

Interviewer: Interesting.

Steve Tuma: So then let’s just say that family said, “You know what, I think we’re gonna go to Colorado. We want to live in a ski area.” And suddenly you’re on the side of a hill. Well, suddenly that foundation is different. The snow loads are different. The wind speeds are different. It’s there, you know, and then if you said, “Hey, wait a second, we’re gonna move to Oregon or Washington state where there’s seismic, you know, earthquake activity,” suddenly the house is going to change because the governing force is the house being shaken instead of a high snow load or a high wind speed. So in some places, there’s areas that are earthquake and snow load, but there’s always one that governs. So it’s a universal code that is site or, you know, state-specific applications. And there are some places where they have their own adaptations or a community will have things or a specific building department may have their own selective enforcement.

Interviewer: Makes sense.

Steve Tuma: Amazingly, a lot of times we hear that, “Oh, we have the worst building department. The guy’s really picky.” And it’s pretty rare that the guys are that bad. It’s usually that they’ve had experiences before where they want to make sure that the plans are done right. And then the house is built right, which is an advantage that we have because we go through and do a full set of detailed plans. So it’s very clear what this house looks like and how it’s going to be put together. We’ve had plans from, you know, the customers bring from us, they’re all proud. They’re like, “Oh, we got these plans, you know, the best guy in town built them.” And there’s details that are missing—ceiling heights, how a wall’s connected to a roof, how a roof is or a wall is connected to a floor foundation, you know, what cathedral ceilings look like, what entry areas look like, how things are framed. So that’s why I think sometimes these building departments kind of get on people and say, “Hey, it’s not clear.” They’ll be like, “Well, I just paid this guy X amount of money. He’s the best designer in town.” It’s like, well, that may be true, but if the details aren’t there, they aren’t there. So, you know, sometimes it’s selective enforcement. Sometimes it’s people, you know, the building department just watching out for people. But either way, whatever the issue is, even if it is the worst inspector on earth with the biggest chip on his shoulder, somehow we’ve navigated all of them. And we’ve worked through every single building department that a customer submitted to and wanted to build at. We’ve done the plan set where they get permits quickly. And then that same approved set of plans gets used for actual building. So it’s the same stuff. There isn’t a set of plans for permits and then a set of plans for building. It’s the same set. That helps with ease of installing the panels. It also helps with the inspection processes so that people, you know, if there’s an issue, they can say, “Hey, these are the approved plans.

This is why it’s done a certain way.” But I take care of all customer service. A customer calls and says, “Hey, the inspector has a question,” or, “Hey, can we do this change?” I take care of it. And we don’t get that many calls because we do a good job. I say do your homework up front. Do it right once up front. And then the rest just falls into place.

Interviewer: Yeah. Well, the thing that strikes me whenever we do these podcasts is your passion for building homes. It’s pretty apparent. But it also sounds like you guys have a lot of fun just building houses. I think that’s pretty amazing.

Steve Tuma: Oh, it’s fun. This one person that he’s building a complex home, we’ve had some interesting conversations. And I think he asked or it came up, “Would I help him again?” I’m like, “Yeah,” because it’s actually kind of intriguing. I don’t want to call it a badge of honor, but there’s something cool about when you’ve gone through these different things and different situations that can arise, and you know, where you’ve done something even for 30 years, and then every once in a while you get a curve come up. So we get the answers, get it taken care of, and move on. And then it becomes part of our system. So the reality is, it’s probably pretty hard to stump us. But there are situations that are unique where you just really, really have to look at stuff. And until you get into the details, sometimes you never see it. But that’s not something our customer has to deal with. That’s me in the back room with some guys saying, “Hey, engineers, hey designers, hey energy code people, how are we going to get this taken care of?” So it’s not like if there’s a problem, we tell the customer, “Hey, go to the Internet and get an answer.” You know, we have it. We have the sources to get the right answer in a way that we can move forward and get the design taken care of. We’ve got electrical engineers, plumbing designers, HVAC designers, green codes, energy codes, you know, so we’ve seen it.

Interviewer: Yeah. It’s 30 years is going to, no matter what you do, 30 years is going to put some experience under your belt.

Steve Tuma: That’s just the beginning.

Interviewer: Yeah. So, well, I think we’ve just about covered the subject of the pitfalls of building well enough. You know, so this was another fantastic show. But before we let you go, tell our listeners the best way to find out about Landmark Home and Land Company.

Steve Tuma: The best way is just to take a look at us on the Internet. It’s open all the time. You could see us at LHLC.com. Again, that’s LHLC.com, like Landmark Home Land Company. And on our website, there’s these podcasts, there’s videos, there’s different details on what we supply in packages. There’s thousands of plan options and you can email through there, send a message. And someone could also call in. Mike will answer the phone at 800-830-9788. Again, 800-830-9788. And Mike can help someone kind of, you know, in the preliminary stages, just sort out how can we help, how can we work together, what are they looking for, where do they need help. And then when they get to a stage where they’re ready to go, I step into the picture and, you know, kind of fine-tune some of the bigger details. You know, if they have specific specifications like Lee’s house in the south, you know, he wanted a certain type of beam and a certain look. We take care of those things and get it taken care of. So the best way is just to take a look at our website, send an inquiry, or give Mike a call at 800-830-9788. And I think the important thing about it is we do answer our phones. We do talk. If you do get voicemail, we’ll call back. We spend time to get to know you and your project. You know, so we want to know that we’re working with good people just like they want to know they’re, you know, they’re working with a good supplier like us.

Interviewer: Well, there it is. Can’t ask for more than that. Thanks again, Steve. And thank you for all of you who have been listening in to the Panelized Prefab Kit Home Building Show. We see the numbers go up and it’s just always a lot of fun to host these podcasts and to know that there’s information getting out there that’s really going to help people build their brand new homes and their great week ahead. And we will see you next time.

Steve Tuma: Thanks.

Interviewer: Thanks.

Steve Tuma: It was a good time. This was an interesting one. We’ll see if people call and ask us about pitfalls we didn’t cover here.

Interviewer: There you go. Thanks.