PDFL_EP15_SHOW NOTES

How MAAS Marketing Elevates Learning Products Through Marketing Integration | Episode 15

Episode Summary

In Episode 15 of the Product Design for Learning podcast, host Greg Arthur welcomes Ashley Hinchcliffe and Hannah Clark from MAAS Marketing. Together, they unpack why marketing is not just a final step, but a continuous thread in learning product design. The conversation dives deep into the integration of marketing and L&D, the importance of audience research, avoiding the “tick box” trap, and building real learner engagement. Whether you’re in L&D, marketing, or product development, this episode is packed with insights you can act on today.

Guest Profile

Ashley Hinchcliffe is the Managing Director of MAAS Marketing, passionate about transforming how organizations think about learning engagement and ROI.

Hannah Clark is the Marketing Director at MAAS Marketing, with a decade of experience in learning and development, specializing in audience-focused, data-driven campaigns that drive learner action.

Key Take-Aways

Marketing should be embedded throughout the learning design process—not just at release.
Audience research is critical to aligning learning products with real business and learner needs.
L&D must own its brand narrative and prove value through measurable outcomes.
Effective internal marketing relies on multi-channel, repeated messaging—not a single “big bang.”
You can’t “out-market” a poor learning product; product-market fit is foundational.
L&D teams need the confidence and data to push back and align learning with strategy.

Questions Asked & Summarized Answers

How would you summarize the marketing phase in learning product design?

Ashley and Hannah challenge the idea that marketing is just a phase. They explain that marketing should start from the beginning, integrated into audience research, product development, and delivery to avoid creating irrelevant or unused products.

Why does audience research matter in learning?

The guests emphasize that understanding employee needs, motivations, and pain points helps design learning products that truly resonate—and that marketers and designers need to work together from the start.

What’s the danger of marketing a bad learning product?

Ashley points out that no amount of marketing can save a bad product. Once learners have a poor experience, it’s harder to win them back. Product-market fit and relevance are essential before launching campaigns.

Why do “big bang” launches often fail?

Hannah explains that one-off events like town halls or learning weeks create short-term noise but don’t lead to long-term engagement. Effective campaigns require repetition, consistency, and multi-channel strategies.

Where should L&D teams start with marketing?

Ashley recommends developing audience personas and identifying the “what’s in it for me” for each group. Hannah adds that L&D professionals must practice empathy, avoid personal bias, and meet learners where they already spend time (e.g., Slack, Teams, intranet).

How can L&D shift from being a cost center to a value driver?

Ashley and Hannah stress that L&D must align with business strategy, measure ROI, and proactively communicate its impact. Leadership buy-in and data-driven decision-making are key to transforming L&D’s internal reputation.

Chapters and Time Stamps

[00:00] – Introduction and Guest Welcome

[02:00] – Meet Ashley Hinchcliffe and Hannah Clark

[03:40] – Why Marketing is Not Just a Phase

[06:30] – Understanding Audience Needs

[10:00] – The ROI Crisis in L&D

[17:00] – Where to Start: Building Personas and Messaging

[25:00] – Why Big Bang Launches Fail

[32:00] – Aligning Product and Marketing for Impact

[44:00] – Leadership, Confidence, and Saying No

[53:00] – Final Takeaways and Plugs (Including Their Podcast and World of Learning Sip & Learn)

About the Podcast

Product Design for Learning is hosted by Greg Arthur and explores how learning products can be designed for maximum engagement, impact, and usability. Featuring top industry experts, the podcast delivers real-world advice, fresh perspectives, and actionable takeaways to help L&D professionals elevate their work.

If you like, I can also draft SEO keywords, a meta description, or social media captions to promote this episode! Let me know. 🚀