The Joyous Dance of Humility and Magnanimity: Jennifer Herdt on Virtue and Joy

The Table Audio w/ Evan Rosa

How shall we think about the apparent conflict between the call to humility and the call to greatness and honor? Is it demeaning to be humble given that we are made in the image of God? Or is humility it the ultimate regard for humanity? How can we put on Christ without being guilty of "acting" or "faking it"? How can we be magnanimous, or have greatness of soul, without pride interfering? Professor of Christian Ethics Jennifer Herdt responds to these questions and helps us navigate the balancing act between humility and magnanimity.

Show Notes

• 0:00—Podcast intro
• 3:49—Begin interview, Jennifer's intellectual conversion story
• 4:44—Herdt's Putting on Virtue: The Legacy of the Splendid Vices book and putting on Christ vs. "faking it"
• 7:53—17th century interest in virtue
• 9:52—The court and virtue vs. performance to influence
• 10:43—Reference to Socrates' concern for reality vs. appearance
• 11:54—Reference to Rousseau
• 12:24—Unpacking Augustinian phrase "splendid" or "glittering" vices
• 16:42—Humility as a virtue or as a vice?
• 20:00—Modern critiques of humility as a virtue
• 23:04—Friedrich Nietzsche's perspective on humility
• 25:24—Interlude 1
• 26:42—Historical and philosophical views of magnanimity
• 31:55—Balancing magnanimity and humility; Jesus as the exemplar
• 35:14—The "great things" that we are called to
• 36:05—Interlude 2
• 38:25—Infused vs. acquired virtues
• 42:30—Goodness by imitation or hypocrisy?
• 44:36—Jesuit theatrical tradition, reference to book Silence and feature film Silence
• 47:33—Humility and joy
• 51:30—End interview, credits

Quotes from Jennifer Herdt

• "We are called to befriend the sinner and the outcast. We're called to relationship with one another. We're called to connection. Pride separates us from that connection. Insecurity separates us from that connection."
• "If humility enhances friendship because it takes down those barriers that separate us from one another in our tendency to always compete with and compare ourselves to one another, then humility is a path to friendship."

Credits

• The Table is sponsored by generous grants from the John Templeton Foundation, Templeton Religion Trust, and The Blankemeyer Foundation
• Theme music is by The Brilliance
• Production and engineering by The Narrativo Group
• Edited and mixed by TJ Hester
• Production Assistance by Laura Pelser
• Special thanks to Jennifer Herdt
• Evan Rosa on Twitter
• CCT on Twitter