Hiking Misadventures with Nalini Ravindranath

Behind the Scenery

"The outdoor narrative has for a long time has been the idea of rugged, strong, men conquering nature, and really it doesn't have to be that way. You can define what your outdoor space is and how you're going to interact with that space...That space belongs to you and you have the right recreate in the way that you want to...I think has to come from a place of you believing that you belong there."

Nalini Ravindranath is an avid explorer and author of the blog hikingmisadventures.com.

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TRANSCRIPT:

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Nalini: So I did the Rim to Rim hike at the Grand Canyon, and I hiked it with my sister. My sister it not the adventurous type and this was actually her first backpacking trip. And she came with me out of the kindness of her heart. And I could see how she transformed during the hike as she saw more people who looked like her and she had the ability to interact with them. So we were, you know, camped at the Phantom Ranch area and as we were sort of like hiking out there we met a mother and daughter, an Indian mother and daughter. I am of Indian descent. And my sister really just kind of like bonded with these two. In fact, like started hiking with them and I was hiking by myself for a while. But I think just that interaction made her feel more confident, and I think made her feel more like that she belonged in that space too.

Jesse: Hey this is Jesse. On this episode we’re featuring an interview ranger Jeff Caton recorded with Nalini Ravindranath. Nalini is the author of the blog “Hiking Misadventures.” She’s a great writer and a great storyteller. Enjoy.

Jeff: Alright, well let's just get started with the first question. When we had our preliminary conversation couple weeks ago you talked about how you went from kind of an urban person in Washington DC to hiking the entire Appalachian Trail. Would you tell us about that experience?

Nalini: Yeah, so that is true. I grew up in DC and didn't really do any hiking or sort of like typically what's considered outdoors, any of those types of activity, and I had a like things that were big life changes that were happening. I had, you know, heard about the Appalachian Trail and I had seen a couple of movies and decided you know I was gonna take it on! This was the year that I was going to do it. So I set out on the Appalachian Trail without any backpacking experience and very little hiking experience. And the process of getting ready for that was really interesting. I'm somebody who has to do a ton of research before I take on something, particularly if it's something that I'm not familiar with. So this was a huge sort of, you know, like something really out of character for me, but to me it was also a really courageous life changing decision. So, you know, like my friends drove me down to Georgia and I started. The first couple of days were a little hard they were really really cold. I didn't know how to set up my tent, I didn't know how to make my stove work. So you know like the first couple days I was sort of like, you know, kind of like watching, making sure that this is really what I wanted to do, but I met such an incredibly wonderful group of people and everybody is so willing to help you. A couple of people that I met on the trail help me set up my tent probably about 3 or 4 days in and then I knew how to set up my tent, and then I knew how to work my stove. It was step by step. I learned how to do things you know while I was on the trail and that was a really, really freeing experience. It kind of got me out of my fear because I think a lot of the reason why I hadn't engaged in any outdoor activity was really fear. My family didn't necessarily do it and I didn't really know what it was about and so I'm really glad I had the opportunity to kind of experience the trail in the way that I did. And of course I just you know learned so much about myself and got to see some amazing amazing parts of the country that I you know had never thought to even visit. And, you know, at the end of it I was really proud of myself, and I think my parents who are kind of very traditional in what they think about as success. I think it also kind of helped pull them out of that traditional mode. The day after I had um summited Katahdin and I came back into town I called my dad and said “I summited!” and he was just so incredibly happy and yeah he said “I am just so proud of you. This is not something that I would have thought about doing. I didn't understand it in the beginning but I'm really glad that you kind of, you know, brought me along this journey and helped me learn about this trail as well.” So that was a really really awesome moment.

Jeff: How long did it take you to do the trail? Were you slowed down at all the learning curve or you did it in pretty Standard Time and didn't let any of that slow you down?

Nalini: Yeah I think I did it in pretty standard time. It took me 6 months. When I was planning it in the beginning I had always intended to go slow because I had read enough stuff online that like, you know, if I try to do too much I'll probably injure myself or you know something like that. And that was at the forefront of my head and being like don’t do anything too crazy, much crazier than what I was doing. I was actually ahead of schedule until towards the end when I entered into New Hampshire. I had developed plantar fasciitis on both feet and tendonitis on both of my knees, so just, you know, the act of walking was starting to become painful. I really had to rethink how I was gonna finish the hike, which meant I had to take a lot more breaks and then also you know sometimes do certain hikes as day hikes. So that slowed me down a little bit, but overall I still stayed that on schedule because I kind of like you know I had breezed through certain parts of the trail. So I finished September 17th. Started on March 15th and finished on September 17th.

Jeff: Wow that is so cool you finished up that trail with 2 banged up using 2 banged up feet and then and you still finish on time.

Nalini: I did! It sort of felt like I was like crawling into New Hampshire, right? And I was just like man, like what choice do I have? Am I really gonna go home when I have 2 more states left? And it was like “nope,” I'm gonna figure this out. Which I think kind of illustrative of my entire you know hiking experience, hiking life. Things don't always go according to plan and then my confidence gets shaken but then I kind of often have to sit down and have a talk with with myself and be like “OK, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna walk off the trail, or are you gonna figure it out?” And usually the answer is I'm gonna figure it out, and I figure it out.

Jeff: So we talked before you mentioned that, you know, naming your blog, there's a story there. How did you how did you name your blog? Because you just talked about how some things don't go as planned. Tell us how you how your named your blog.

Nalini: Yeah so, my blog is called “Hiking Misadventures,” and the story really starts from my first…I guess it was my second day on the trail, but the first morning after sleeping on the tail and waking up. I had filtered my water the night before so I could get an early start and I was just you know I had it all planned. Except, the thing that I didn't do is close my bite valve. It was open and I had set my pack unknowingly on top of the bite valve. I had packed everything into the pack and then I went I went to lift the hydration pack and put it in my backpack and it was pretty empty. And I was just like “what happened?” And I was just like looking around thinking there was a leak and then I kind of you know I had to be like “oh, that was a really silly mistake.” And then I re-filtered water, did the whole thing again and in that panicked moment I had taken my camera out and I had set it down. I completely forgot about it, started hiking, and then maybe about a mile in I realized I forgot my camera. I had to hike the mile back and pick it up. In those first few moments I was, you know, feeling like “gee, I'm probably not ready to do this, I'm completely inexperienced. I don't know what I was thinking.” But I just kept putting one foot in front of the other. And then after I came home a lot of people that I would talk to would constantly say, particularly people in my family and other people of color, “I don’t think I could ever do that. I would never know how to figure out something like that, or problem solve on the go.” And when I decided to start my blog after the Appalachian Trail that was really something that was a driving force for me in even starting the blog - to emphasize this idea that you don't have to be an expert to experience the outdoors. And yes, there are some basic safety things that you have to think about, but really most of the time there are things that you can just learn how to do. And if you make a mistake you know correct your mistake and you get to keep going. And that fear shouldn't stop you from experiencing all the wonderful things about the outdoors.

Jeff: So I think a lot of us Rangers experienced those things where some days, you know, the most we get done is like you said putting one foot in front of the other and you don't need to be an expert for a lot of this stuff. You just have to do it and learn and fail sometimes, but continue after that failure.

Nalini: Yeah!

Jeff: So kind of building on that question, how has your you're hiking experience or your time in nature, how has that changed you from when you were starting out there in Washington DC, and now here you are with this awesome blog and all these experiences? How have you changed along that road?

Nalini: Yeah I mean, oh man! I would say the outdoors have given me so much confidence and the ability to believe in myself. Like I said, I was always one of these people who had to plan and really think through something before I did something, and I always kind of play things safe. So I only did things if I knew I could excel at it, so only things that I, you know, had a lot of experience in and I'm very averse to taking risk. And that part of myself has completely transformed. I am willing to experience new things. I don't let fears stop myself from experiencing new things. And I think you know one of the things that I've learned over the years of hiking and, you know most of the hiking that I do is by myself, is that sometimes the fear has to come along with you on the journey, right? And then you kind of go “OK, there's some fear there. That's OK you're coming along with me.” And then you know that can also make me you know stay alert and smart on the trail too, and you know like understand what my limitations are. So fear is not necessarily a bad thing. And then just, you know, I think in general being a more confident person that believes in myself and believes in my ability to do things whether it's on the trail or off the trail. So when I actually came back from the Appalachian Trail I kind of made career change from, you know like I have worked in nonprofits doing research, and then I kind of switched to a different role within nonprofits which was to be a grant writer, which involves a lot of sort of like you know being out front and having sort of like you know being like a face of an organization. And I don't think I could imagine doing something like that before my outdoor experience.

Jeff: You mentioned how your risk tolerance has changed and how you had, you know, those fears but you dealt with them. You let them ride along on your car trips and in your backpack when you were hiking. What were some of those fears starting out, and then how have those fears changed? Or have they changed?

Nalini: You know, I don't think a lot of those fears have changed. And you know one of the things that I would say is that I am not a natural athlete. Athletic endeavors never came easily. And I think a lot of times when you think about what the outdoors is, or what people are able to do in the outdoors I think there's a very kind of like specific body type that we have in mind, and I don't have that body type. I am a pretty tiny person. Really, really short. And so I think a lot of the fears in the beginning, and they continue to be, are just really doubting what my body can accomplish. So if I'm setting off on a backpacking trip I have all these doubts about whether I can carry the pack, whether, you know like I'm a little accident prone, whether I'm gonna do something to hurt myself and really injure myself. And then, you know, find myself not being able to get the help that I need. I think there are also just kind of fears around - a lot of the places that I travel to are rural, and often I hike alone and, you know, there are safety concerns. Those have never ever materialized, but I think those are things that just kind of like live with me or like, you know, that I carry with me. But then when I'm on the trail those things either sort of ride along with me or they kind of dissipate. Like, “oh, you know, this is fine!” And the part about my doubts about my body, or fears that my body will not be able to accomplish something, that is something that just constantly I carry. And then, you know, I will get to the top of the mountain and just kind of look back and go “huh, my body did that. Congratulations!” Like having appreciation for like being able to do this physically.

Jeff: So we talked about the fears that you have, and I think that's a pretty common thing for all of us hikers to have, whether you’re a ranger or, you know, that first time visitor to a National Park. The fears are different but they're always there.

Nalini: Yeah!

Jeff: What has been challenging about visiting national parks and the outdoors, and more specifically, you know, have you perceived any barriers to being in these places?

Nalini: Yeah, I will start off by saying I think where I am now, sort of financially, in terms of job-wise, I'm in an incredibly privileged place, right? Like I have financial resources and a really flexible work environment where they let me take off weeks at a time to do my little adventures. So I would say you know first of all those two things can be an incredible barrier, right, given sort of like you know how far away some of these beautiful, amazing places are. So I think you know just physical access can be a barrier for a lot of people. I think particularly people of color, especially if you're coming from a pretty urban environment where I think you know there's a lot of diversity. Both in terms of people, but also like diversity in terms of like transportation and things like that. So I think those are, if you will, like you know material barriers right? And then I also think one of their fears that I have is that it's not going to be a welcoming place. That I am not a super athlete and so therefore if I'm in a National Park if I make a mistake or you know like have some kind of accident, people are going to be judging me and not really accepting me. And I think over the years it's just going back and going back has kind of you know helped me sort of like temper those fears from the beginning, right, to say “OK, I know this is a fear that I have, but once I'm there I can create my own space.” Yeah, I think more can be done to create national parks to be a welcoming space for everyone, but then also individually I think having the courage to create your own space as you're going through these incredibly beautiful, wonderful places but that can sometimes feel really isolating.

Jeff: You mentioned there that when you, when you're in these in these big parks and you're concerned about you know possibly hurting yourself while you're on the trail and people judging you, would you tell us a little bit more about that? Are you concerned about other visitors, or rangers, the people who would come help you if you did get hurt?

Nalini: Yeah.

Jeff: Tell us more around that, I'm curious to hear.

Nalini: Yeah that so I think my fear is always judgment from sort of like everyone. Park rangers who might say “that was an obvious mistake that you shouldn’t have made. Your pack is too heavy. Why did you decide to carry a heavy pack like that?” Or even like you know other visitors as well. I think you know we live in a society where there are, whether intentional or unintentional, racist reactions, right? And being a very dark-skinned person that, you know, in a lot of national parks, particularly in sort of like in the backcountry there aren't a lot of people who look like me. So often I have this fear that somehow if I do something and I hurt myself like I am not going to get the help that I need because, people are going to judge me. And then I will say so last year I hiked the Wonderland Trail, which circumnavigates Mount Rainier and I did hurt myself. My pack was too heavy. I was carrying my entire like 11 day food supply with me so the pack was a little heavier than I anticipated it was going to be, and I think I was probably also a little bit dehydrated. So one morning as I was like heading out, it was I think you know day 4 or 5 of this 11-day trip, I was coming out of my camp area which was up this very steep incline, and I was coming down that incline and just kind of stepped the wrong way and turned my ankle a little bit. So I sat down for a couple of minutes. The pain went away, and then I was on my way. And I climbed up to the highest point on the trail that day, which was about one and a half mile climb. I was actually feeling really great. I was feeling really strong. And then I had to descend. And as soon as I started descending I knew I had hurt my ankle more than just turning it because every step was excruciatingly painful. And I have to say there were so many people who stopped. Visitors to the park who stopped, and you know like gave me some Advil and ACE Bandages. There was one person who even said “I'm going to the top now, but if you don't make it down, like on my way back I will definitely help you.” And then I ran into a park ranger who was just so incredibly helpful. And I remember like I kept saying “I can walk myself, I can walk myself, I don't need to be carried out of here.” And it was getting really dark and it was starting to, you know, thunderstorm and they kind of had to make the call to carry me out. And the ranger kind of sat me down and said you know “look, you don't have to prove anything to anybody. You have been incredibly strong right now. We're here to help you and this is going to help you, to carry you out.” And that's what they did. And I think it took that experience for me to, and for that ranger to explicitly say that to me, for me to feel comfortable, because otherwise I was just carrying this burden in my head, right? Like, oh they were just going to think that I was too stupid when no one really thought that. Everybody was just, you know, pretty impressed with me that I had been willing to do as much as I could. So feeling like all these people are going to judge me but in reality my experience was not that at all. And even to this day I feel like I owe an amazing amount of gratitude to the park rangers who helped me.

Jeff: Glad you stumbled on a Ranger, that's why we're there.

Nalini: Right! which is what they kept saying! “We are here for this. We are here to help you.” We can sort of be inside of our heads so much that we're not experiencing the reality in the way that it is really happening, right? And I'm just so grateful that he could identify that was the struggle that I was having and would be able to talk to me and say “look, like you don't have to prove anything. We're here to help you and you have done an incredible amount already.” And I think it's something that I constantly about too, like if I am doing other trips too. It's just like “I don't have to prove myself to be out here. I belong in this space just as much as other people.”

Jeff: Yeah, I'm glad you said that you belong in this space just like everybody else.

Nalini: Yeah, I mean I feel like it's not something that I maybe explicitly said in terms of barriers, but I think that's also part of it. I think, you know, the outdoor narrative has for a long time has been the idea of rugged, strong, men conquering nature. And really it doesn't have to be that way, right? You can define what your outdoor space is and how you're gonna interact with that space, and how you recreate in that space in the outdoors. And, you know, that space belongs to you and you have the right recreate in the way that you want to, right, in in in terms of you can take as long as you want when you're hiking up a mountain. It's how you define yourself with the outdoors and I think has to come from a place of you believing that you belong there.

Jeff: So going down that same road, what makes you feel more welcome in outdoor spaces? Or what do you think the Park Service could do to make more people welcome? You can kind of pick whichever question there you want to answer.

Nalini: Yeah, I mean I can probably answer both. I feel really comfortable when I see people who look like me around me, right? I think that's kind of a very human instinct. So I did the Rim to Rim hike at the Grand Canyon, and I hiked it with my sister. My sister it not the adventurous type and this was actually her first backpacking trip. And she came with me out of the kindness of her heart. And I could see how she transformed during the hike as she saw more people who looked like her and she had the ability to interact with them. So we were, you know, camped at the Phantom Ranch area and as we were sort of like hiking out there we met a mother and daughter. I am of Indian descent. And my sister really just kind of like bonded with these two. In fact, like started hiking with them and I was hiking by myself for a while. But I think just that interaction made her feel more confident, and I think made her feel more like that she belonged in that space too. So I think that’s an obvious one for me. And in terms of what can the Park Service do? I think, you know, I think we really have to think about how we can make our national parks more accessible to a diverse group of people. So it's not just maybe, you know, you get your backcountry permit and then you kind of go off exploring by yourself, because that might not be the first thing that somebody who's never experienced a National Park wants to do, right? I was listening to Lonnie Bunch, who’s the secretary of the Smithsonian Museum, a few days ago and one of the things that he talked about was how to make museums more accessible. And one of the things that he actually started doing when he was trying to make the African American Museum, like build it and how to make it a reality, he started sort of putting all these artifacts and making them virtually accessible. So it was it was really a virtual museum before it was actually a real museum. And that was actually like stuck in my head because I think a lot of times when people are not familiar with a certain place or a certain kind of environment, I think if they can experience it virtually then I think they become more comfortable, right? They can see themselves because they're experiencing it. And even for me the Appalachian Trail as a concept didn't really mean anything until I saw a movie about it about with through hikers hiking, and then it became a reality where I can picture it and I could picture myself there. So I think, you know, when we're talking about accessibility it's really offering more virtual programming so that people really feel a connection, feel welcome and they can experience it before they're actually physically there. And then I would also say having a diverse group of rangers as well, because I think that's also a sense of comfort, particularly if you're coming from a place that's probably not very diverse.

Jeff: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I mean, you see you want to see yourself reflected in the people visiting and you want to see yourself reflected in the people taking care of the park, running the park and enforcing the laws, and making those decisions. Yeah that makes that makes perfect sense. So that's all the questions I have, actually. There's one more thing we wanna ask you though, since we're still recording. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that that I didn't bring up? What else do you wanna talk about?

Nalini: Oh man, I really think that outdoors is this amazing, wonderful space that really really helped transform who I am. I don't think I mentioned this during our pre-interview but I have I have a bunch of health issues. I'm diabetic, and I also struggle with anxiety. And both of those things I've been able to manage by having this amazing relationship with the outdoors. Being able to get outside and just having the time and space to just like, you know, not focus on anything else, right? It is such an amazing privilege just to be like “I only have to worry about putting one foot in front of the other. I only have to worry today about making it to the place where I'm going to sleep.” There is this amazing freedom in that and I want as many people as possible to experience that. I think it was like the main purpose of this blog that I created and all of that I do with Hiking Misadventures, it's really to kind of emphasize the fact that you don't have to be an expert and that your relationship with the outdoors can be anything. It doesn't have to be that you go you know do a hike like the Appalachian Trail. I live in DC and there is lots of National Park Service stuff all around us. There is the Rock Creek Park, which is just right like you know in the middle of DC which is an amazing park and you don't have to go that far to explore it. And I think those are all outdoors. I will end this by saying, you know, I describe myself as this transformation of somebody who was not outdoors to becoming an outdoors person, but I think that that narrative in and of itself comes from this notion that there is only one way to experience the outdoors. My mom, she taught herself how to swim in the Indian Ocean. She explored woods around her and it was actually kind of like you know a safe place for her when she grew up in Sri Lanka where civil unrest could kind of spark up anytime. And that was kind of the place that was a safe haven for her from that. So there's this long history of the outdoors in my family that we have never really talked about as an outdoor…that we are an outdoor family. As I've as I've become more interested in hiking and taking on more outdoor adventures I am discovering that even my own outdoor narrative is really much more complicated than it is, and that we all do have a connection to the outdoors. Whether it's gardening or you're climbing up Mt. Rainier. There's a connection there. There's a strong history there. And there's a story there and you just have to tap into that to be able to experience all the wonderful things that that the outdoors has to give.

Jesse: Behind the Scenery is brought to you by the interpretation team at Grand Canyon National Park. A huge thanks to Nalini for sharing her experiences with us. Check out her work at hikingmisadventures.com. We gratefully acknowledge the Native People on whose ancestral homelands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant Native communities who make their home here today.

Jeff: I'm in another Ranger 's office and I have an iPad that's recording this as a backup in my office. If you could only see our little bailing wire and bubble gum operation over here. Nalini: You gotta start from something right?