Makoto and Ty Fujimura on Navigating the Tension Between Creativity and Commerce

Converge: The Business of Creativity Podcast with Dane Sanders

Mako’s paintings have been described as a rebellion against the speed of the internet and an antidote to time. In fact, the New York Times refers to his work as a form of “Slow Art”. Rather than using conventional paint, Mako uses various pulverized minerals, applied layer by layer to create huge finished works that can only truly be seen and appreciated when the viewer is able to slow down and observe the painting for longer periods of time. It can take over 10 minutes to begin to see the multi-dimensional qualities of one of Mako’s works. He takes inspiration from both traditional Japanese and contemporary American art.

Although Mako’s art is intrinsically full of beauty and joy, it explores the themes of trauma, brokenness and healing. He and Ty both have the experience of having lived in New York City during 9/11 and its aftermath, and also of building a ground zero teahouse that served as an exhibit gallery for local artist to share their expressions of grief and loss as the city healed from tragedy.

But how do we translate this into dollars? Where does capitalism fit in when we’re talking about art, meaning, personal expression and communication? This is where the conversation gets interesting! I’m so glad to be able to have Mako and Ty together in the same conversion, because they represent two different manifestations of this idea. Since Ty is in the business of helping people monetize their creativity, and as a creative person himself, he has lots of insight into this area. In fact, while Ty and his father seem to be opposites in many ways, it’s interesting to see how they actually think alike when we’re talking about values and what’s important in life.

I hope this episode inspires you to take another look at what it means to be creative, and maybe to even get a fresh perspective on the world with all its different angles and dimensions.

Links

You can explore the work of Makoto Fujimura here.

Learn more about Ty and his work here and here.

Timeline

[2:31] Mako introduces us to the concept of pulverized minerals in his form of slow art.

[3:49] The mulit-dimensional aspect of Mako’s paintings is best seen in person when you can view them from all angles and take time with them.

[6:25] Mako’s paintings are an homage to American expressionism as well as ancient Japanese artistic traditions.

[11:06] Mako describes the experience of straddling two different cultures simultaneously, and how living in New York City affected him and his work.

[14:36] Ty shares his experience of growing up in the city and now raising children there. He and Mako talk about their 9/11 teahouse collaborative art project.

[21:04] Mako’s work explores themes of trauma, brokenness, and life and death.

[23:35] Art as therapy and communication

[30:00] There is no need to push yourself to create during trauma. Sometimes it’s okay to do nothing. But you can wait and hope for transcendence and rebirth.

[33:50] Creativity is not trivial just because it doesn’t always translate into business. Your creativity is something that people need.

[40:23] How does creativity fit into the model of capitalism? Mako talks about the ‘gift economy’.

[44:03] Creating a transaction around a work of art shows the value of that work. Decentralizing art only hurts the middle man, not the artist or the consumer.

[47:00] Ty explains why he created Cantilever, and how it functions as an operating system for running a creative business.

[52:20] Technology as an artistic medium

[56:33] Ty and Mako discuss what they have learned from each other, and how the so-called ‘unproductive’ moments in life are what contribute to creativity.

[1:03:45] The assumption of scarcity vs. the assumption of abundance.