Katya Balakina transforms information into engaging visual storytelling - S17/E02

Sketchnote Army Podcast

In this episode, Katya Balakina shares her incredible journey from drawing in her early years to becoming a journalist in Russia during a hard time for the country.

She shares her discovery of graphic recording at art school and winning an art contest, which gave her the confidence to pursue art full-time. In this discussion, Katya offers valuable tips and insights from her career as a graphic recording artist.

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Running Order

• Intro
• Welcome
• Who is Katya Balakina?
• Origin Story
• Katya's current work
• Sponsor: Concepts
• Tips
• Tools
• Where to find Katya
• Outro

Links

Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

• Katya on LinkedIn
• Katya On Instagram

Tools

Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

• Neuland Markers
• Procreate
• Adobe Fresco

Tips

1. Stop overthinking. You are good enough.
2. Simplify your work.
3. If your drawing can be a photograph, you are not pushing.
4. You are doing everything right.
5. It's good to remember that you are not going to one day just create a perfect board.

Credits

• Producer: Alec Pulianas
• Shownotes and transcripts: Esther Odoro
• Theme music: Jon Schiedermayer

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Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everybody, it's Mike Rohde, and I'm here with Katya Balakina. Katya, it's so good to have you on the show. Thanks for coming.

Katya Balakina: Hi, Mike. Thanks so much for having me. That's very exciting.

MR: Yeah, I've seen your work around mainly on—not Instagram, I think LinkedIn, actually. And really liked how clean and simple, and clear your work was. We were talking about this before we started recording. How did I find you? I'm not totally sure. I suspect it's the algorithm on LinkedIn that sees other graphic recorders and visual thinkers and puts them in our feed.

KB: I guess.

MR: I'm not totally sure, but I'm really happy I did because you seem like a really fascinating person with really nice work, and that's the kind of person that fits really well on the show. So, thank you for being here.

KB: Thanks so much, Mike, and thanks for your kind words about my work. and I guess I didn't waste my time on LinkedIn if it helped you to find me.

MR: Yeah, for sure. For sure. So, the way this podcast works is we first understand who you are and what you do, and then we go right into origin story, sort of bring us back from when you were a little girl and your experiences that brought you to where you are. I think in those origin stories, which I love we can learn a lot about you as a person and how you got where you are, but also, I think it can be beneficial for listeners to think, oh, I'm so different. I can't do that. And then you hear the origin stories and think, oh, wow, you know, Katya actually has a lot of similarities to me, and she's doing it, so maybe I can do this, right? So that's the thinking around origin story. Let's just jump right in. Tell us who you are, what you do, and then go right into your origin story.

KB: Sure. As you mentioned, I'm on LinkedIn, so I do graphic recording, visual notes scribing. I dunno the right way to call it. They're just old terms we use.

MR: Yeah, yeah.

KB: I've been doing that for, I would say, about eight years. Maybe I can say 10, but exclusively more than eight. I've been working as a graphic recorder here in the States for last two years. And before that, I used to work with Scriberia. Your audience probably knows about that company.

MR: In the UK, yeah.

KB: In the UK. Yeah, they're very inspirational. Their work, I would say it's what defines word scribing and graphic reporting for many people. And a lot of people start learning about scribing from like Googling Scriberia stuff. And before that, I graduated art school back in Moscow. And that's where I learned for the first time about graphic recording from my art teacher there. So that's kind of my journey from just hearing about graphic recording and being full-time graphic recorder here in the States.

MR: So, I'm kind of curious, going into your origin story, when you were a little girl, did you always draw since you were little, and then you managed to just keep drawing? Or did you pick up drawing later in life? When did that start for you?

KB: Sorry, I missed the second half of your question. Can you repeat that, please?

MR: Okay. It was, tell me a little bit about when you were a little girl, have you always drawn, or is it something you learned later? How did that happen for you?

KB: I think it happened naturally. I've always drawn, and I have one of the first photographs of me with like a box of markers on the floor. I think I was less than 1-year-old.

MR: Wow.

KB: But since I was born and grew up in Russia in the late '80s, early '90s. Very challenging time, transformational time. Russia was relatively like poor state back then, so I have all those like black and white photographs that look like from I don't know, '20s in America. So yeah, people are having a hard time to believe that those are from my childhood. But yeah, I have like an old black and white picture of myself with markers. Yeah, I have been into drawing and doodling my whole life, but I guess I hear a repeat story of many people who were into this kinda like creative stuff that my parents had an idea that it's impossible to sustain any kind of like, normal life being, I don't know, a doodler whatever, an artist. I don't know, what word would they use back then.

So I grew up with the idea that I do love drawing, but I cannot do it as something real in my life, so I have to find something else. And I became a journalist because I also loved writing. I used to work like a kid journalist for a local newspaper in our super tiny city. I grew up in a very rural area. And so, that was like, I dunno, I had 10 readers maybe, but I was super into it, and I was making illustrations for the newspaper and writing text. So since I thought art is not gonna be helpful for my future career, I decided to become a journalist. And I spent 80 years being a journalist in Russia. I used to work as a radio journalist, but then—my Google keeps showing me weird notifications. Sorry. Let's hope it's—

MR: That's okay.

KB: Yeah. Let me click something here. So yeah, by 2012, it became kind of dangerous to keep being a journalist in Russia, so I had to make a decision between am I staying in that field being a journalist, and being ready to get assaulted or whatever could happen, or should I compromise and only be like a good journalist talking about good things, or I should choose something different. And I decided to quit journalism and pursue art career because by that age, I would say I overgrew fears that art is not good to sustain like a normal life.

MR: You felt like then at that point, you could actually make artwork, probably as a journalist, and being aware as you grew, you probably realized there were things you could do that were different than journalism.

KB: For sure. Also, that happened that around that time I used to work as a journalist in Perm. It's like a regional city in the middle of Russia. And around the time I was a journalist there, the city had an art contest. I accidentally won. I didn't have plans of winning. My friend told me, "Hey you might wanna try." And I tried and I won. And it gave me a huge, like, self-confidence boost that I can actually do something with art.

MR: Wow.

KB: And yeah, by the time I quit journalism, I had like a very shy idea that I can do something art-related. But I didn't know what, I started thinking about illustration. I moved to Moscow started art school there. So I have a degree in editorial illustration, but again, I don't know, I felt that I cannot express myself fully with editorial illustration. And I kept putting little notes next to my drawings all the time. Some kind of like speech bubbles or little descriptions, funny descriptions.

And I remember my teacher used to say, "Remove from your illustrations. You are in art school. You have to express yourself with visual tools. That's it." And I just couldn't get it. I kept putting words. And I remember when he told me about—Victor Millime is my art teacher's name. He told me about scribing. I was like, that's it. I see illustrations. I see little text next to it, feels like something that exist just for me. What do you think? How did this origin story?

MR: That sounds interesting. So, now you've discovered graphic recording through your teacher who kept trying to lean you away from putting words into your illustrations, and you realize, like, okay, I can't stop her, so maybe she needs to go in that direction.

KB: Yeah. I talk to my art teacher every once in a while, and I constantly thank him for that discovery in my life. Because also the first ever experience of graphic recording, of scribing I had when I was in art school. We did one of like TEDx Moscow events. That was the first ever scribing I did. And when I realized that it's something I absolutely love doing, but it took me another three, four years to start doing it as my work. Partially because I moved abroad, I left Russia, and I started working as a graphic record in Estonia, working in English. And since I'm from a very rural part of Russia, I never studied English really in any kind of academic environment. I had to learn English from pretty much scratch.

MR: Wow.

KB: My first graphic recordings were a lot of like notes, a lot of trying to figure out what people are talking about.

MR: Yeah. That would be tough. Wow.

KB: That was really tough. But it took a while to get here, where I am right now.

MR: Well, it's interesting that your first scribing opportunity, you know, no pressure, but let's do a TED. Let's do a bunch of TED talks.

KB: It was I loved about my—

MR: What you try to go for is like when you're five years in, not like your first one. So maybe you just like difficult things, like as challenges.

KB: You know, I would say I believe deeply that you are always ready for what you wanna be ready for. Exactly as I was telling you like five minutes ago, when I was a journalist, kid journalist, I didn't learn anywhere how to write. I just had an idea that I'm a journalist, and all of a sudden, I got a spread in a local newspaper to fill in. So I like that about myself, that I don't really have that perfectionism.

You know, sometimes I talk to people who are great, like I see their work and they're great, but they are afraid to start. They feel like they might wanna do like five more boards and then they can start looking for real client, where I say, hey, you gotta go straight there because you already have everything you need, and whatever you don't have, you'll find that on the journey while you are already diving deep into it, so.

MR: I like that attitude. It reminds me, I had a project that I did actually in Chicago many years ago. It was a blackboard. A company wanted to have illustrations on the blackboard, and they said, "Hey, Mike, would you come and do it?" And I gave him a quote, and they liked it. And so I took the train down, and when they asked me, "Hey, Mike, have you done lots of blackboards before?" I said, I've never done any blackboards before, but by the end of the day, I should be an expert.

KB: That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, I like that too.

MR: So, you know, and they laughed about it, and they were really happy with the blackboard that I did. And it lasted, I think a year or something, and then they brought someone else in to do a new one. And so, it was fun to do that work. And also, it was a good reminder that for many people, when you do the work you do, like, you're very critical of your own work. And it's not up to your detail, but to other people, it's like amazing. Like, how do you do that? Like, even your worst stuff can often be very amazing for other people. So it's a good reminder to you know, don't let that hold you back.

KB: Absolutely.

MR: So, this is great.

KB: I would say that what also I learned from Scriberia, because when I joined, I worked—that was during the pandemic. And I was the only remote. I mean, everyone was remote, but I was the only person living outside the country.

MR: Outside the UK. Yeah.

KB: So that was really challenging for me to kinda work and learn at the same time because obviously when you are not in the same room with the team, it takes extra effort. I was really nervous before scribing, digital scribing. Like most of the work, back during the pandemic was done remotely. And someone from s Scriberia told me that, "Remember you're gonna be in the room of people, even if it's a digital virtual room. You are the only person who knows what you're doing. Those people they're professionals in their own industries, but you are gonna be the only person who is a professional scriber. So that's it. Be confident, you know better than anyone what you're doing." And that attitude really saved me a lot of stress.

MR: I bet.

KB: It allowed me to feel as confident and as I could be, understanding 40 percent of what people were talking about, especially with British accent, but yeah, it really helped me, that attitude.

MR: I sort of picked up on something when you said you moved to Estonia and you started scribing in English, my assumption is most people in business, I guess, are speaking English in Estonia, or did you need to learn Estonian as well?

KB: Yes. Estonian is a very beautiful language, but very difficult to learn. I know Estonian on you know, those like levels of knowing language, A1, A2?

MR: Yeah.

KB: I have B1 in Estonian. That's enough to have a very basic conversation, but it's absolutely not enough to do a graphic recording. To get to the B1, that took me about two years. It's the one thing that is just against my nature to wait to get ready for something that might not happen. So I just thought, okay, what tools I have right now available to me that I can use immediately for graphic recording? And my very basic English was one of those tools. That's why I chose English. I would say I had a lot of projects when I lived in Estonia because Estonia is a very developed country. It's like an IT capital, one of the IT capitals of Europe. Estonia has a lot of great famous startups that everyone knows about. Like Skype is an Estonian invention.

MR: Okay. That's right. Yeah.

KB: So it's very technically advanced country. They do have fair amount of like international conferences. And it's where I started working with Samsung, for example. They're in Estonia and other more local names. And those events were in English. But I felt like there is a limit to what I can do in Estonia without speaking Estonian language fully.

MR: Yeah, for sure. I suppose the advantage of having an international conference in a place like Estonia is you're going to get people from literally everywhere in the world. So English for everyone is probably not their primary language. So that maybe work to your advantage. I suppose.

KB: Yep. Absolutely. That's a great, great point. Yeah, yeah, because we just spoke basic English to each other with different accents. And it also helped me to feel more confident about working on-site in a language I'm learning. And just like in general, not looking for perfection. And also—

MR: And then—

KB: -yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

MR: Oh, go ahead. You finish your thought.

KB: I was just trying to say that nobody expected me to speak perfect English, too. One thing I love about America that nobody expects me to speak perfect English here as well, because so many—I meet people with from very different backgrounds here. And they're all working together, and that's fantastic. I think that something I also kind of learned in Estonia—

MR: Interesting.

KB: -not to expect like high professionalism in terms like—again, not to expect things to be perfect.

MR: More like functional. Yeah.

KB: Yeah. Just like a tool. Language as a tool. It's one of the tools I use for my graphic recording. I would say that.

MR: Yeah, of course. Now, I'm kind of curious, you said, so you're in Estonia, you're doing work locally. Now work in Scriberia, and then you decided to come to the States. What caused that decision? And then how did you get established again where you are?

KB: Okay. That part of the story might get a little boring, or not, I dunno.

MR: We get to judge that.

KB: I met my husband, John, in Estonia. He is a traveler. He used to be a travel editor for a publishing company. He wrote a book about travels himself. So I met that traveling guy in Estonia, and we started traveling together. And during the pandemic, we got stuck in Georgia country. I dunno if you know, it's not far from Tokyo—

MR: Country of Georgia. Yeah.

KB: -on the Black Sea.

MR: Yeah.

KB: Beautiful place, but we got stuck there for a year and a half.

MR: Oh, wow.

KB: 'Cause the pandemic and travel restrictions. And we were married, so I couldn't go to Estonia with him. He couldn't go to the states with me. So we decided to stay there and see what's going on with the world. During that time, I started working with Scriberia. So by the time we got back to Estonia, most of my clients were through Scriberia. I didn't have a lot going on in Estonia. Since John is from Kansas City, America, it's like a big market, big opportunity. Again, everyone speaks English, so I wouldn't have to be limited by like a very few English-speaking conferences like it was in Estonia. Working with Scriberia was fantastic, great clients. But I really wanted to leave that virtual space and start working offline. And that was just challenging because I was in Estonia, Scriberia is in London.

MR: Yeah.

KB: So moving to America seemed again, like an organic, natural decision we made. And about like two and a half years ago, we moved to America. Started from Kansas City and then moved to Chicago.

MR: And here you are. I looked in your LinkedIn profile. It looked like you've worked for the Sketch Effect in the past, which—

KB: I work with them still. They're a fantastic team.

MR: So I know both those guys.

KB: I love them.

MR: Yep. Alejo and the crew there is pretty great.

KB: Yeah, yeah. That's a fantastic team. And that was really one of the game changers in establishing my career in America, because it's one thing where you are on your own, and there is another thing when you started knowing people from the same industry, see how they work, talk to them in person. And I've been deprived of that while working for Scriberia remotely. And it felt really awesome to like, meet other artists that do the same thing and talk to them.

Here's a funny bit from my mother-in-law. She loves what I'm doing, and she refuses to believe there are other people doing the same thing. So every time I tell her that I met this artist, I met this artist, she just says, "No way. Nobody else can do what you do, right?" So that was great to find out other people doing the same thing and learn from them and be friends with them. That's huge.

MR: Yeah. That really makes a difference being involved in the Sketchnote community, and specifically the International Sketchnote Camp, which is basically a physical meetup of people in the community that started in 2017 in Germany and has continued organically now seven times. We, of course, had a skip during the pandemic. We were all going to Belgium, and, you know, it ended up being delayed about a year, and then they decided to go online and do the online version. So we did have something.

But other than that, it's been happening every year since 2017. And meeting those people that think like you and often are professionals and do it in some professional manner, but not all of them, you know, some people are just do it as a hobby. Or do it as a way to solve problems within the profession they're in, is really great to meet those people in person. It makes a difference.

KB: Absolutely.

MR: Especially, you know, when you talk to them online, because now you've got that physical, you've been with them and you know them. Yeah. It's great.

KB: It is different to learn from people when you look at their work on the screen and when you actually see them doing things.

MR: Making it, yeah.

KB: They just unlock something, just like understanding. And you mentioned a sketchnote community. I feel like I felt bummed that I missed the gathering in July in Texas.

MR: Oh, yeah.

KB: But my friends went there, and I couldn't go for a good reason because I had a baby in June.

MR: Oh, yeah. That's kind of important.

KB: I was very fresh mother and I could barely leave my apartment at that point, but I talked to my friends—

MR: We missed you.

KB: -who went, they loved it. They loved every minute.

MR: Yeah. It's happening in Birmingham, England this next summer. So going to the UK. One of the things we—going off on a little tangent. In the U.S., we sort of had to start over because so much of the community had been built in Europe. A lot of Europeans involved. Especially a lot of Germans, right? It's very popular in Germany. So, going to the States meant that a few came over from Europe.

KB: Right, right.

MR: And there were a lot of new people from the States and from Mexico and Central America as well. So it was good, but it meant that it was a smaller group. Which in its way was also good. But I guess now going back to the UK, we have the opportunity to kind of merge the two together. So hopefully, it continues to grow. It's pretty exciting to see it happening in Birmingham.

KB: Yeah. Hopefully, I can join one day as well. That'd be great.

MR: Yeah, we'd love to have you. You'd fit right in.

KB: That'd be awesome.

MR: I would love to switch to talking about tools that you like. I could guess what you probably use because you're doing it, you know, on boards, but you could be surprised. I would love to hear any kind of tool that you use. What are certain boards that you like? Are there markers that you like? Any other things that you use to do your work in person? And then you can talk a little bit about digital, too, if you like, after that.

KB: Sure. I don't think I am gonna be very original talking about the tools I like. I use Neuland markers. I think a lot of your guests use the same thing.

MR: Yeah, for sure.

KB: Yeah, I'm very happy now they have their store in the states, and I suppose we don't have to pay $45 for delivery anymore, but I haven't ordered from their local website yet. So, yeah, I just use Neuland markers. For my outline, I mostly use brush nib. That was a huge game changer for me because I'm not as good with the Chisel nib as I am with brush. I dunno why. I know a lot of guys and girls who do a lot of great stuff with the chisel, but for me, it just takes an extra second to think how to like turn it. And that second it's where I would prefer to use it to think, to understand, and to listen. So when I've discovered brush tip, that was a huge game changer for me and allowed me to work much faster. But I only use it for outlines. For my colors, I still use the chisel.

MR: For filling.

KB: Yeah. I guess another tool I never go on site with that is my notebook, but not because I make notes, but because I create a grid on my board with a little notebook. It's kinda this size.

MR: Oh, okay.

KB: So I go from top to the bottom, from left to right, making a quick grid with my notebook. I dunno if it makes sense. This what I'm—

MR: It's basically a template. Yeah.

KB: Kind of. I just don't wanna think about writing straight. So I use it just to make sure my lettering is—

MR: You've got some structure there, yeah.

KB: -it is not falling down because—

MR: It's easy to happen.

KB: I mean, my first boards, like everything started here and happened in the bottom right corner. It was not fun. So that's what I use most of the time.

MR: That's smart.

KB: So, whenever I'm on site without my little notebook, I feel almost like I forgot a marker, a color.

MR: Something is missing. Yeah.

KB: Yeah, yeah. Just one of the things I always do.

MR: That suggests to me, too, that if you're using this notebook as sort of a grid-making template, that it means you probably use the same-size boards most of the time because you would have to know that the book would make the grid fit on the board properly.

KB: We use different sizes. The grid is not that—it's very—how would I say?

MR: Say it's loose, maybe? That loose grip.

KB: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How it looks most of the time. I have a paper here. I just put like my notebook like this. Like a little line under. So basically, the size of each square is the size of my notebook.

MR: I see. Got it. I hope it makes sense.

KB: Yeah. And I am assuming you're using pencil later if you wish, you can erase that pencil.

MR: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I mean, those are just like little tiny lines. They kind of anchor me when I do lettering. It's mostly for lettering. Why I'm sharing that tip with everyone I work with because so many people, just like you said at the beginning, that you like how my work is like clean. A lot of people say, Hey, fantastic lettering, very clear, it's almost looks like printed.

And I say, you can do the same thing, don't worry about it. Just make a grid and you're good. Because one thing I don't like feeling when people think something is impossible to do, and I really try to communicate that in graphic recording, as long as you want to do it, things are possible. There is nothing that should stop a person from doing it. If you're not good at lettering, it's possible to improve without spending five years learning.

MR: Good. I like that attitude as well. Yeah. It sounds like you use pretty standard stuff for your physical and in-person things.

KB: Yeah.

MR: What about digital? It sounds like you're moving away from that, but I suspect it must come up from time to time. Is there a tool set that you like there?

KB: Absolutely. I mean, I use Procreate, I use Fresco as my two main tools for digital graphic recording. Some clients want to have like a big image. In those situations, I use Fresco because it's a vector. I love doing digital graphic recording, but I prefer markers on board, I would say, because I really like telling stories, and it was a huge part of my life since I was a child journalist. I was like writing stories for my peers, then when I was like just a journalist, a regular journalist, and I would tell stories to people.

And I like that being a graphic recorder still allows me to tell stories, share information, and I just feel like when I do it in person, on a board, it works much better. When people see you working on an iPad, a lot of people assume, I don't know, it's free drawn, it's done with like some kind of software, maybe AI.

MR: Magic. Yeah.

KB: Exactly. So people are like, oh, it's on iPad, okay, never mind. Graphic recording, in my opinion, loses a lot when people are not interacting with it right away or during the process. But when I do graphic recording on a board, people are excited about it, people wanna share their ideas, people excited seeing their ideas appearing on the board, and it just creates that real magic between people telling me their stories, and I'm absorbing their stories and sharing the stories with the audience. So I would say I love digital tools because they give us so much freedom. Any colors I wanna use, any shapes I wanna use, gradient, but real satisfaction from my work I get when I do stuff on board with markers.

MR: It's a different dynamic, I think, you know.

KB: That's my difference for me. Uh-huh. Absolutely.

MR: Like you said, people come up and there's really nowhere to hide when you have a board there because you got markers and a board and you, that's it.

KB: True.

MR: People watch it growing over the time, and they come and talk to you, and what are you doing? And wanna know? And like you said, there's more of an interaction than with an iPad, where, in a way, you're sort of hiding inside the machine.

KB: Absolutely.

MR: It can be difficult to share. I mean, you can show the screens and stuff, so, I mean, there's advantages, of course, on each side, but again, it sounds like depending on what you want to achieve with the audience, might determine which approach you would take, right?

KB: True, true. I have a little story about that if we still have time.

MR: Yeah, of course.

KB: I worked on one project with like very serious topic and very serious business topic, very serious business crew. All men, suit, very serious, like not a smile. I did I think four boards throughout the day. And I had my flight a little before the end of the event, so I had to say a quiet goodbye, and kind of walked backwards from the room. And I was closing the door. So I stared at them through like this—I dunno how to say between the door and the wall, just like one last look at the room. And I saw those very serious men wearing suits, looking at the boards and smiling and laughing.

MR: Wow.

KB: And like pointing things to each other, I wouldn't even say like kids, and that was fantastic to witness because that's exactly what I want people to feel. I just don't want them to feel that burden of the information they want to share with each other. I kind of want to want that burden to turn into something lighter and easier to absorb. And witnessing that image of like really serious team acting really silly and in a funny way in front of my boards, that was very inspiring. And one of the things I felt like I did something right here. I really like that feeling.

MR: You tied it all together in a lot of ways. I've often felt that when I do digital sketchnotes or whatever, that there's sort of a delayed reaction. I noticed this back when I went to Stake South by Southwest for many years. One thing I noticed was using Twitter at the time, I would do sketchnotes of a session, and I was pretty fast, so I would be done, but it was just black and white. It was in a little notebook. I would sort of capture the sense of it. This is when I first had a phone, I could immediately go out and take a picture and post it on Twitter. And the thing that I noticed was if you talked about being at South by Southwest, especially in the design community, some people would actually block people because they felt like, oh, I couldn't go, and I'm left out. Like there was this feeling of being left out, right?

KB: Okay.

MR: If you talked about it too much, you would get blocked by some people, right? And so, it was like a have, have not situation, but the thing I noticed is when I would go to these sessions and sketchnote them, and then take a picture and post it almost immediately afterward, that people really felt like they were part of it. It was almost immediate for them. They could react to it almost as fast as the people were in the session. So it sort of changed the dynamic. And I really liked that. And I noticed that over time as I would do projects where I would sketchnote and I didn't have that immediate sharing, whether it's in person with a board or posting someplace like, let's say you worked on it and I did all these typo fixes and such and we delivered a PDF, that you sort of lose the reaction, right?

That people are probably reacting to it and like, wow, maybe they're printing it and putting it on their office wall or whatever, but there's no feedback loop when you go that way because you sort of lost the moment in a way. So I can definitely see huge advantages to doing it in person, even though it's more challenging, and you know, all the different problems of it. There are some huge advantages to that physical in person work, for sure.

KB: Yeah. Absolutely. And it's what I learned from my art teacher. Again, I asked for feedback on some of my graphic recording works, I dunno, five years ago. And he said one thing I still keep thinking about when I'm trying to be like a perfectionist, he told me that you can work, you can do like perfect lettering and beautiful drawings, but nobody gonna care about them the next day. What matters it's to be done right there. I think that's very valuable to remember about that part of the process, feedback loop, that really with graphic recording, it is a part of the process. It's not something separate. It should be there. Otherwise, something important is missing.

MR: That's really good. Yeah, I think there's some immediacy component that often is—you know, it's understandable too that in some cases, like when you were working for Scriberia and you were doing these online things like that was a great service, and I guess I suppose you could build in something virtually where you could afterwards walk through and answer questions. You'd have to have an organizer who would build that in which, you know, on online it's sort of like you're sort of trying to avoid long-time on Zoom calls. Like in my head, there's like a two-hour limit. After two hours, you have to do a break. I don't like going more than an hour before a break because people just get fatigued, right?

KB: Exactly.

MR: Like, if you're trying to squeeze everything tighter, there's not really that time that in between that transitional time that you would have when you're standing by your board between sessions or after the thing, and the people that are drawn to it could come to you. And then there's a whole opportunity to discuss that. So, you know, they're in the place, it's immediate. They can talk now where with often with the digital side, it takes a lot more effort to reach out to someone and, you know, it does happen, but I think there's a lot more friction in place that you don't have to deal with in person.

KB: Absolutely.

MR: That's a good thing to remember for all of us, but there are definitely advantages, you know, as much as, you know, some artists may like to like hide in their iPad and, you know, hide in a quarter and do their work, right. There is an advantage to being seen and having that interaction if you're able to do it, so.

KB: Absolutely. And I can relate because like I have a baby now, and that would be so much easier to do most of my projects from home, digital, remote.

MR: Yeah, for sure.

KB: But I just don't like it that much as working in person. I mean, my husband is doing a great job babysitting while I'm working, while I'm traveling like crazy.

MR: That's good.

KB: But yeah, it's what I do because it just makes more sense to me. I mean, I'm not saying digital, I mean, just what you said.

MR: It definitely has its advantages. Yeah, for sure.

KB: Absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of events are happening, like in hybrid space right now, when part of the team is remote, part of the team is in the room. So it makes sense for a lot of things, but I just personally like being out there more.

MR: Yeah. I think, you know, that's also an important consideration as a sketchnoter, graphic recorder, visual thinker, you need to find where do your best work and then lean into that. So there might be people that like doing the visual stuff digitally for their own reasons, and maybe they're introverted, they don't like being in the space with the people. Maybe that's actually a better fit for them. So everyone needs to find, you know, sort of your window and where you work. Obviously, it sounds to me like that interaction, that in-person part is very important for you.

KB: Absolutely.

MR: And that sort of drives what you do. Right? So it's gonna show up in your work, right? If you don't like what you're doing, it's eventually gonna show up in the work. So that's a good thing to remember.

KB: One hundred percent. I remember how, when I just started working for Scriberia, I was very nervous. Very nervous about things you can imagine. And I had a call with one of the founders of Scriberia, Dan Porter. And I think I was sitting there on the call, like bright, red sweating. I couldn't speak one word. And he said, "Remember, still the most important thing in this field is for you to have fun." And back then, palms were sticking to the table, and I thought, wow, what a stupid thing to say. Like, what kind of fun I can have. I'm about to have a heart attack. But, again the thing that it's very valuable thing to remember, and if someone asked me, what is my primary goal in this field? Like sharing information, storytelling would be one, but having fun would be almost as important as like telling stories, sharing information.

MR: That's really interesting to hear. That's good to hear. That leads me to sort of the final section, and that is tips. We love to be practical. I sort of frame the question as, imagine there's someone listening who's visual thinker, and maybe they feel like they're in a plateau, or they just need some inspiration or something like that What would you tell them? What would be three tips you would tell that person to kind of get out of the funk or maybe think of things differently? I would love to hear what your thoughts are on that.

KB: Sure. I do have conversations like that fairly often because people reach out online and they ask me, like, what to do. They show their work. And the first thing I wanna share with everyone, and we already touched it in today's conversation, I would say, stop overthinking. You are good enough. You're good enough to go out there. You're good enough to reach the client you want to reach. Just like you and the blackboard. It doesn't matter if you don't have like a big portfolio of big clients. Being courageous, being excited about what you do, understanding why you wanna do that. Those are the most important things you need to have.

And it's a really sad, again, when I see people who like their work is fantastic, just more practice, actual practice in the field would improve their work. They're just afraid to get in there because they think they're not good enough. And I wanna tell that frustrated person, you are good enough. You are better than good enough. So go for it. Email, whoever. Email or Google. Another great tip, it's probably the part of this tip is I told you that I started doing graphic recording in English in Estonia on my own. My first gigs were pro bono when I would just reach to the organizers, describe what I'm doing, and they would just let me on site, like do whatever kind of attitude. And they didn't expect much. And when they saw the results, they were fascinated.

Even though five, six years ago, my graphic recordings they didn't look as clean, nice. Grammar was all over the place, you can imagine, but people liked the result anyway. And it's how I started getting real clients from those pro bono, when I would just show up on site and tell everyone what I'm doing. And that's exactly what I started doing when I came to the United States as well. Because it's hard to establish yourself when you know nobody. Just my husband and his family and their dogs. That's it. So I started reaching out to like local libraries, pro bono events, volunteering opportunities, just to do what I wanna do for real, not in my little notebook where nobody can see it. And I think that's a huge part of it.

So that would be the first tip. Just go for it. You are good enough. The second tip I would say simplify your drawings. You don't need perspective. You don't need dimensions. You don't need a lot of stuff that can get on the way of you working fast. And it's not only about graphic recording, it's about all the illustration fields. It's important to know an anatomy. It's important to know where the shade should go, shadow, but you shouldn't overthink that kind of stuff. We had a great exercise at Scriberia of redrawing famous paintings with very minimal amount of lines. And it turns out people recognize Mona Lisa, if it is just three lines, people still see—

MR: Yeah, you don't need much.

KB: Exactly. So much we can translate through simple images. It's fantastic. So I would say if someone is struggling with drawing realistic people, I show those people examples of my work when I don't really count fingers, when I have ears sometimes floating in the air, when I draw hair as three lines. And that's enough. People see what they need to see, what I want them to see. And that's more important than being very accurate.

And again, of course, it's great to practice. And I try to do a lot of practice with my drawing, but mostly how to simplify my drawings even more because I value drawings on the board. I think balance is important, text and images. And I understand how hard it is to think about an image while you are drawing live, and people are talking, and you have to store the information they're talking about, think, how to put it on the board.

MR: A lot is going on.

KB: A lot. Yeah, too much. Almost. So it's important to be able to draw something real quick. Value of the drawing is huge. So that would be tip number two. And the tip number three, again, something I learned at Scriberia, you notice that I'm really thankful to that experience, even though it was remote and I've never been to the studio, to the office. And I've never met anyone in person from Scriberia, but it just feels like I know—I worked for them almost for two years, and yeah, never met anyone. But I learned a lot. And I value that knowledge and experience.

This tip is more for graphic recorders, visual thinkers. If your drawing can be a photograph, you are not pushing hard enough. That tip helped me a million times on-site. Means if you just draw and laptop when someone is talking about computer science, hmm, maybe—

MR: Yeah, move a little harder.

KB: Yeah. Do something more fun. It's such a simple filter. Like, can it be a photograph or not? And you can apply that one side within seconds to the drawings you're about to make. It can work super simple. You don't have to—again, I understand pressure of time, and it's hard to think about deep metaphors often because, since you said so much is going on, but you can draw a little arm added to your laptop, little face, and it's already gonna do more than just an image of a laptop. You can put a person on the screen doing something. And you just can do so much to make your image more rich and try to communicate more through the image. So yeah, think of if something can be a photograph, do something more fun so it's not just a photograph.

MR: And maybe for someone who's new, let's say a new graphic recorder, and you're facing that and you want to incorporate that, maybe the solution is you're doing a pro bono thing, that's where you test this stuff, right?

KB: Absolutely.

MR: Where if you fail, they're not gonna take their money back 'cause there wasn't any, right?

KB: Yeah. First of all, another discovery I made while working as a graphic reporter, it's so hard to fail, and people would really understand that you fail.

MR: Right.

KB: A lot of people say, "Man, I failed here, my frame is not straight."

MR: Nobody cares.

KB: Absolutely. I've done, I think over the last five, six years of active work, I dunno, 200 gigs, maybe more. I've never counted, but never anyone would walk to me and say, "Hey, this is not good. This drawing is not good." So people dunno if you think you did something wrong.

MR: Yeah, definitely.

KB: It would be tip now number four.

MR: There you go.

KB: You are doing everything right. And it's also good for mental health because I understand the pressure is insane.

MR: A lot going on.

KB: And if something can take that pressure off, I think I do it from my sake. Like, otherwise, as I told you from that call with Dan. I would just melt of stress. And yeah.

MR: Yeah. Lately, I've been trying to change this mindset with people to think of the work you do at Sketchnoting or whatever as an experiment. Every time you do an experiment, you're gonna learn something. You know, scientists don't go into the laboratory and it fails, They never do the experiment again.

KB: Exactly.

MR: That's actually the reason to do it again and try something else, and totally keep exploring. 'Cause every time you do it, you're learning. But I think it sort of changes. I notice in my own self, when I think of things as experiments and I'm playing, I loosen up and I ha take more chances and have more fun. And it feels like the results are more successful. Even if there's failure, because I've learned something, it changes dynamic, the relationship to the work, when I think of it that way, then, oh, I have to deliver this amazing thing for these people and if like you said, the border isn't perfect, they're gonna see that. Like, nobody cares.

On the podcast here, I've talked to many people like you, who when they look back at their first work, like, oh my gosh, how did they pay me for that? That work is terrible from my perspective, right? But that what's that saying is look how far you've come from where you began, and you were still good enough. They still paid you, they still loved it, it's still caused them to think in a different way.

Like, that's what we're here for, right? Like, we get so hung up on the perfection of the production that we forget that the movement forward in ideation and conception and retention, those are really where the value comes for these organizers. That they remember that event, and they had that lady who was doing that stuff on the boards, remember they talked about this, and you've now been a success, right? They don't even remember what the drawing looked like anymore.

KB: Exactly.

MR: So, it's pretty exciting that we get to do that.

KB: Also, good thing to remember that you are not gonna one day just create your perfect board. It's not gonna happen. And even if it happened, like then what? To walk around to do perfect boards? So, where is fun? So I like thinking about that every next board is gonna be better in some way.

MR: Even better.

KB: Maybe it's something is not gonna go exactly right, but it's just that fun, creative process that I chose to deal with daily. And that's what I really love.

MR: Small wins, you know, look for small wins.

KB: True. I mean, maybe they're not even small. I consider every win as a big win.

MR: Yeah. Right, you can frame it however you like. Yeah, for sure.

KB: Definitely. Every new climb.

MR: Well, Katya, this has been really wonderful to chat with you, and thanks for sharing your tips. What's the best place for someone who wants to reach out to you to do so? Would you send 'em to a website, to LinkedIn, to somewhere else?

KB: We just learned that LinkedIn is a place to find me. I think I'm Katya Balakina there, if I remember right.

MR: Yeah.

KB: B-A-L-A-K-I-N-A, spell it right. And also Instagram. I post a lot of on Instagram. Also, on my Instagram, I post some of the creative stuff outside graphic recording. I do canvases. And it's Xrenobl. I dunno, maybe you can put it in the description, but also if you search Katya Balakina on Instagram, you're gonna be able—

MR: You'll see it. Okay.

KB: Yeah, I have a profile picture of a screaming coconut.

MR: Okay, cool. Well, Esther is my person who does the transcripts and does all the show notes. So she'll find you. She'll hunt you down and find you, and we'll have links in the show notes for you.

KB: That'd be great.

MR: So people can connect with Katya and reach out and say hi or see her work. Her work is really excellent, so.

KB: Thanks so much, Mike. Thank you.

MR: Yeah, thank you so much for being on the show. I just wanna thank you for doing the work you do, for continuing to push forward and do work and share it so we can see your work and we can admire it, and it inspires other people to do great work too. So thank you for the work you do.

KB: Thanks so much.

MR: It's appreciated.

KB: Thanks for having me, Mike. And I hope this conversation inspires young graphic recorders to go for it, to be perfect.

MR: Yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, the beauty of a podcast is it lives on for a long time, and you never know who it might influence. So that's why we do these things.

KB: Awesome.

MR: So, well, thank you everyone who's watching or listening, until the next episode, this is another episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast. Until then, talk to you soon.

YouTube:

Through graphic recording, Katya Balakina transforms information-sharing into an engaging storytelling experience that’s both fun and insightful - S17/E02

In this episode, Katya Balakina shares her amazing journey from starting to draw in her early years, to becoming a journalist in Russia during a very hard time for the country, discovering graphic recording while in art school, and gaining the confidence to pursue art full-time after winning an art contest. Along the way, she offers valuable tips and insights from her career as a graphic recording artist.

SPONSORED BY CONCEPTS
The Concepts Sketchnote Workshop video — a unique, FREE, hands-on workshop video where I show you how I use the Concepts app to create sketchnotes on an iPad Pro with an Apple Pencil.

In this one-hour, eighteen-minute video, I cover:

• The Infinite Canvas as a sketchnoting power feature
• How vectors give you complete control of brushes and sizing as you create sketchnotes and
• How vector elements let you size and repurpose your drawings for ultimate flexibility.

The workshop video includes answers to common questions about Concepts.

Watch the workshop video for FREE at:
https://rohdesign.com/concepts

Be sure to download the Concepts app at concepts.app and follow along with me during the workshop!

RUNNING ORDER

• Intro
• Welcome
• Who is Katya Balakina
• Origin Story
• Katya's current work
• Sponsor: Concepts
• Tips
• Tools
• Where to find Katya
• Outro

LINKS
Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

• Katya on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katya-balakina
• Katya On Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/xrenobl

TOOLS
Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

• Neuland Markers - https://www.neuland.com/en-us
• A little notebook - https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Basics-Notebook-Hardcover-8-25-Inch/dp/therohdesignwebs
• Procreate - https://procreate.com
• Adobe Fresco - https://www.adobe.com/products/fresco.html

TIPS

1. Stop overthinking. You are good enough.
2. Simplify your work.
3. If your drawing can be a photograph, you are not pushing.
4. You are doing everything right.
5. It's good to remember that you are not going to one day just create a perfect board.

CREDITS

• Producer: Alec Pulianas
• Theme music: Jon Schiedermayer
• Shownotes and transcripts: Esther Odoro

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