Ep149 - Keep Breathing: From Unthinkable Loss to Unbreakable Resilience with Dr. Kate Truitt

HIListically Speaking with Hilary Russo

Embark on a profound journey with Dr. Kate Truitt, the voice of lived experience and scientific wisdom, as she unveils the raw intricacies of her latest work, "Keep Breathing.” Dr Truitt is an award-winning clinical psychologist and applied neuroscientist. She's internationally recognized for her expertise in trauma, stress, and resilience. She calls “Keep Breathing” part autobiography and part scientific exploration. Together, we unwrap the layers of life's adversities, from the anguish of loss to the resilience required to face another day. As Dr. Kate shares her personal journey into the darkness, we intertwine the stronghold of community with the advancing tides of therapy, emphasizing the paramount importance of human connection and trust in the odyssey of healing and light.⁣

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTS AVAILABLE ⁣

https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣

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CHAPTERS⁣

00:00 Dr. Kate Truitt Opening Soundbite⁣

00:36 Hilary Russo Episode Intro Keep Breathing⁣

7:49 Navigating Mental Health and Wellness⁣

12:25 Chronic Illness and the Opioid Epidemic⁣

14:57 Changing the Narrative on Loss to Resilience⁣

19:19 Flash Bulb Memories and Vulnerability ⁣

32:24 Navigating Grief and New Love⁣

47:09 Rapid Fire Interview With Dr Kate⁣

51:00 Dr. Kate’s Final thoughts⁣

52:30 Hilary’s Close and Information⁣

53:25 Havening for Healing Journey Support⁣

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⁣Connect with Dr. Kate on all social media platforms at @DrKateTruitt

Get her free Keep Breathing Healing Companion Toolkit:

https://www.drkatetruitt.com/freeresources

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Tune in to Dr. Kate's other conversation on the HIListically Speaking Podcast (Ep 109) and learn about Healing in Your Hands https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast/episode/20c0e132/ep109-dr-kate-truitt-the-healing-power-of-touch⁣

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Interested in giving Havening a try? Schedule your session and mention you heard about it on the podcast.⁣ https://hilaryrusso.as.me/hugitout⁣

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Join the next Free Havening Happy Hour. March 27th at 7pm ET. Registration is required https://www.hilaryrusso.com/events⁣

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https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣

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⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣⁣

00:00 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Those behavioral responses, those flash-bowl memories. They're there through an evolutionary construct and that's, I think, such useful information when our brain is grappling with depression and anxiety or suicidal considerations, or just trying to find a way to keep breathing. Fundamentally, Because our brain's good at keeping us alive. It's its number one job. It's not so good at reading the instruction manuals that the 21st century has handed to us for a thriving life. ⁣

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00:36 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

There are people in your life that you will meet that will either be there for a moment, a season or a lifetime You've heard this before and somehow someway no matter how much time they are in your life, because it's just a measurement of time you need to decide the role that they're going to play, especially as life is going forward, and I'm not only talking about those positive moments either, because life is truly about contrast. ⁣

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01:04⁣

It's about growth, it's about finding balance, personal development right, and Dr Kate Truitt knows that all too well. If the name sounds familiar, it's because she has been here on the HIListically Speaking podcast before, and she was here talking about her first book, healing in your Hands, which was the story of really how we can put self-healing and self-havening into our lives. But now she's back with something much more personal, and I am so elated to have you Kate. Kate the Great, as I call you, someone I consider a friend, a mentor, especially in the world of havening, and you're an award-winning clinical psychologist, neuroscientist, internationally recognized for your work in trauma and stress and resiliency. But more so, you are just a human being going through this life like anybody else, with your own story, and that is really what your newest book is about Keep Breathing and I'm just so glad I get time to share space with you again. It's always a gift. ⁣

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02:07 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, well, right back at you, Hilary. Thank you so much for inviting me on and I just. You are a friend and a dear colleague and I admire you so much, and so I'm really excited to share about Keep Breathing and to dig in? Yeah, because at the end of the day, we are all just humans doing our best. ⁣

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02:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, Like there's one quote that I love, Kate, and it's we're all just walking each other home right, and that's kind of something that you and I have talked about before, especially with this journey that you're sharing in Keep Breathing. That we're going to get into. But the whole idea that the old school, the old way of therapy and psychology, and sitting across the from your therapist, feeling like you're being judged in a way like tell me all your feelings. It has really changed, because now it's we're seeing more of the traditional therapy, including parts of ourselves, so that you can share with your clients and your patients to let them know I'm human too, and that's. That's so much about what we're we're reading in this newest book, isn't it? ⁣

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03:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, and it well, it's about connection fundamentally. And the purpose of this book in so many respects was to highlight what you just said. When we're a psychotherapist, when we're trained and we've we've got the license, we've got the things, we're put into this expert role and sure there's a lot of information that we have. And, on the other hand, the number one thing that supports the healing journey is connection and report. And when we're invited to divorce our humanity from the healing process, sure there are some reasons for that, clinically, why we do that. And, on the other hand, in a world where disconnection is the rule of thumb, as our job now as empaths, as healers, is to be a connecting space, it really is about that. ⁣

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04:12 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

So the hope for the book was. ⁣

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04:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

yeah is to highlight hey, you can know a lot of things and, at the end of the day, just a human brain doing human things. ⁣

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04:21 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

I think it also goes back to not just connection but a trust in knowing that as we're walking through this life, we're going to be impacted, we are going to be touch, moved and inspired by different things that come into our lives. And how do we process, how do we go through these things? And I think that's what makes your book a little different than just a traditional memoir. You're sharing this really deep part of yourself through years and this book just isn't about grief. This is so much further. You actually said this is part autobiography and part scientific exploration. Can you elaborate on that? ⁣

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05:04 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, it's raw. ⁣

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05:07⁣

I think the tagline that keeps coming back and being reflected to me is it took me five years to write this book and, for context, my first book I wrote in eight months and I love my first book, but this book took five years and it took 10 years to be able to write it, because it does dig into not only the sudden traumatic loss of my fiancee a week before our wedding and that's actually the opening chapter, is me going to give the eulogy and then it uses my story as the case study. ⁣

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05:43⁣

The Case Study, told in real, deep, first-person, intimate terms, of understanding the impacts of childhood trauma, of chronic illness and pain, of suicidal considerations, and grappling with that very real human darkness that can seep into our souls and hold us captive for so long. And fundamentally also, it's a love story about coming home to self and learning how to partner with our mind and our body and our soul so that we can show up in the world around us no matter what's happening. And then, of course, because I'm a science geek and this is why it took five years really gently integrating the nuances of science into all of that, why is the brain doing these things? Why are our behaviors showing up in these ways that are deeply painful and negatively impactful on our lives, and I talk a lot about that Because really my goal for both of my books was to turn around to my young 16-17 year old self, if I could, and say, if only you'd had this data, dear one. And perhaps somebody else now will have the data and it will help them. ⁣

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07:00 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, what would you say to your 16 year old self now? ⁣

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07:05 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

It's okay, hang in there, baby girl. ⁣

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07:07 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, hang in there. Isn't that something we constantly need to say to ourselves? We're not separate from the parts of ourselves that are younger. I mean, all parts matter, as we've heard. That's big in the community, but being able to hold space for that younger part of yourself that's feeling scared or insecure or undecided, showing up for that part of ourselves, is really important. ⁣

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07:40 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Extremely important and even the parts of ourselves that are looking at exiting stage, left out of life. One of the final stories I added into the book was and this was a big leap that my editor supported me in making and Chelsea Thompson, thank you. You're amazing, I love. You was really looking at my young, 10 year old self who was struggling with suicidal ideation, and using that as another story to highlight the pain of childhood, the lack of awareness that our young selves can struggle with. And one thing Chelsea said to me as I wrote the story was I'm a mom. I don't really think about the fact that my little kiddo could be going to that level of deep despair. I think about anxiety and stress and depression, but I don't think about that for them. And when I told her how young it started for me, that's her brain. She's like you. Please, if you feel like you can safely tell the story, please do. ⁣

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08:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

What's even scarier about that is that you and I grew up in an age where there was no social media, and you know my work as a health journalist. I've covered a lot of stories that tap into that area of how social media can have a real negative impact on your emotional well-being. ⁣

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09:12⁣

In fact, there have been some statistics and I've shared them before on the age group that it's really impacting. You know that younger age group, the teens, into the early 20s even, and you know, with us not having that and how heavy it was for us then not having this global village to be able to tap into at the touch of a fingertip. How much more is it now and how much more important is this type of book to have so that kids know that they are supported, or the adult in us that's looking back at the child knows they're supported. ⁣

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09:51 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Right. ⁣

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09:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

You know. ⁣

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09:53 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Well, yeah, and looking at the idea of the village and how fundamental that is to our deep, deep, beautiful, dear friend. ⁣

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10:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Amy, make it work. We love Amy. ⁣

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10:05 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, and those core values of safety and belonging and loveability and success, being able to get those core needs met, which is something that I've been developing as part of my model for 25 years. ⁣

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10:20⁣

But I came up with the idea of Amy when I was a young 20 something working in a rat lab, because I couldn't figure out where. My brain just wanted me dead. And you know, and I had an amazing human who shown so much healing and care on me, which was John, and then 10 years later he died. And that grappling with myself within all of that and really knowing that, as you're sharing, there's our village, and then when we put it into that social media sphere, it escalates exponentially the pressure and the expectation of these fundamental values that our brains are evolutionarily hardwired to lean into. And so if we feel like what rejection feels like in a home environment and then we take that to a global populace, is what and that's what it can feel like in social media, especially for adolescents and teens, and that's why suicide is the number one killer of our young humans these days. It's devastating. ⁣

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11:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

It's beyond devastating. Having to dig into those, those statistics, is both a doctor, a neuroscientist and also a journalist. The other side of things, to sit and to come from a compassionate place, because you and I are both empaths, as many people who are of service in this work are it. It's devastating to sit there and think how can I help? And in your writing of Keep Breathing, was that something you thought about? Because it is your own healing journey, that writing this. I'm sure it's cathartic, therapeutic, but were you thinking? In writing this, I really want to share some kind of in a way it's guidance, a guide that lets people know they're okay just how they are and they're supported. ⁣

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12:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, I never would have done it otherwise. It's one thing to pen a story. It's another thing to go through the journey of publishing a book. As I know you're working on your own books and I know you know so well. The vision for this was so much bigger than me. ⁣

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12:35⁣

Yeah, yeah, my story and it's interesting, Hilary, because my story used to be a unicorn story of being widowed so young, of grappling with chronic illness and layering through that the difficulties of a complicated childhood and a complicated mind, body system, with health and pain and everything. And then, when the pandemic hit, my unicorn story became a normal, devastating story of millions of humans facing unexpected loss and death, of chronic illness seeping into the very fibers of our society. And that was a huge part of what kept me moving forward when many times I wanted to set the book aside. And then the other piece is my fiance, john, who's a victim of the opioid epidemic and looking at chronic illness and pain and so much that has happened in terms of opioid use at a national level. And now you know Netflix has done a great job putting out a lot of really important stories around it and there's a lot of conversation now, more so than ever and at the same time. I was a psychologist, I was trained, I was working with individuals who are navigating addiction. ⁣

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13:58 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

And here my own partner died of an accidental overdose from opioids and I remember what hit me with your book was very early on and I don't want to give this away, but we know that this story is so impactful. But when you went to the blame game and I saw in the quotes I should have been there, I was like ugh, and I think that is one of those things that we go through with. Grief is how the anger, the avoidance and then the blame of what could I have done differently? But you were actually in that space and to be also working in the space, it's kind of there's a level up there. ⁣

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14:43 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

You know I felt like I, leveled up on the guilt and the shame and the judgment and just how I flogged myself emotionally for it and carried that. ⁣

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14:56 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

I felt like I failed. What do you feel was the shift? And I feel like it's more than just a shift. But where did you really start seeing a change in how you wanted to change the narrative on this story of losing the love of your life a week before your wedding, really coming to terms with what you've been through in your own life as a child, with your own illness and your own suicidal ideations? Where was it where Kate said I got to do something with this? ⁣

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15:33 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

There was an incident at my offices where a past patient of mine came to the offices with the intention of harming me and it was a very scary event and luckily everybody was fine and the situation was contained and the person who needed support got support. And that was one of those moments for me of reconciliation and recognizing that there's so much pain in the world and the slight sidestep here. But this really deep connection to mental health and wellness or human rights and therapy is a privilege. And saying that as somebody who runs a group clinic and also has a training institute and a nonprofit like how do we do everything we can? And then being a part of the havening community, of course, is one of the co-developers to create the butterfly effect of larger change. And in the havening world it's been really powerful and beautiful to witness how those tools and that's where I'm the creator of the Healing in your Hands programs can be disseminated into the communities and, on the other hand, the education around what's happening in our brains isn't readily available and one of the things after that incident in my office is that my team continually reflected and the patients who were in the offices when the event happened and we had full swat on site to helicopters Like this was no joke. ⁣

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17:12⁣

One of the things that everybody kept continually reflecting back to me was thank God I understood my brain and what happened next in terms of their own journey. And I told everybody go get therapy, go get whatever support you need, go do acupuncture, go get whatever you need. Build me, including all the patients who were there. So my entire team and all the patients like, just know, we've got this, you just send us the invoices, no questions asked, whatever you need. Nobody took me up on it, and for two critical reasons. One, everybody went to the offices and applied havening with their clinicians and literally one of my clinicians was on the roof with her patient of a three-story building. ⁣

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17:57 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Hey, there's no area that's off limits with this work. ⁣

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18:00 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

He's there, no limits, just megawork. And that they understood their brain. And that was where the request really for me started to bubble up and say I've been a specialist in neuroscience and trauma and resilience for going on 20 years now because I needed to make sense of my brain and I've got a pretty wackadoodle story. ⁣

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18:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

You're using that word. We love that word. Yeah, I do. ⁣

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18:31 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

And to the point of the expert being Because people as experts were like, oh, they don't really experience this. And then we're on the pedestal and it's like no, no, no, no, no. I've had panic attacks in shows. I've done the continual freak out texting with people and just next thing I know it's pages after pages of text messages and nobody's responding. And there's a narrative why our brain engages in those behaviors and they can be so pathologized rather, and instead it's like no, you're just human. ⁣

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19:04 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

That. I'm so glad you say that, because I've been there too and the first thing we want to do is shame ourselves for being human and think I should have known better. Much like I should have been there. ⁣

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19:19⁣

We think, because we have this higher level of education LNOPs after our name we're on the top of what we do in the world, that we don't feel, and what makes us so beautiful is being vulnerable and courageous to say, oh no, I go through it too. And I'm glad you said that, because I think hearing it from somebody who isn't a place in a platform multiple and I'm not just talking social media, I mean in general where people look up to you we're not untouchable, or you're not untouchable, we're just human beings first right. So you go back to mentioning something you mentioned, something early in the book too, about flash bulb memories and to those who might not understand what that is in the scientific community, can you talk about that a little bit? ⁣

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20:26 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

It's a reliving of an experience that has already happened and it's different from deja vu. Sometimes we have those experiences of deja vu of oh, I've been here before, this has happened before In a flash bulb memory. The experience is literally taking over our brain and we're reliving it in the moment, from everything we're hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching, all the way down to our somatosensory or body response, the body memories of the encoding and the thoughts, the feelings of all of it. And when it happens, it's extremely disorienting because our brain has lost sight of the present moment or back in the past, and it's really, really painful and for so many people who don't know what they are but experience them, because that happens in trauma it's extremely crazy. ⁣

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21:19 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Making yeah, and really that's when we have to show up for Amy and say all is well, this is not happening, it happened right. And really having the tools, of which there are many out there, it doesn't have to just be havening. Obviously, it's what you want to put in your little brain candy jar, as I call it. Pull out what you need in that moment. And just a side note that those listening, there is a wonderful toolkit that Dr Kate is offering. It's Keep Breathing Healing Companion Toolkit. That is a free resource. It's a wonderful download. ⁣

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21:58⁣

I highly recommend you grab this in addition to Keep Breathing the Book which is coming out in April, and it's a Keep Breathing, a psychologist's intimate journey through lost trauma and rediscovering life, and I'll have that book, as well as Healing, in your Hands available. These are both two wonderful books to put in your library when you need them. Read them more than once. I know this book just from starting to read it. It'll be one of those books I want to read again because it's such an intimate journey and I think this is the kind of book that every time you read it you find something new right. ⁣

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22:36 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, well, the hope in integrating the science is really helping people partner with their brains and have a theoretical construct for all of those wackadoodle things that happen, and being able to say, oh OK, amy, the Amy, della, amy's having a really hard day, this is happening, that is happening. And being able to reconstruct not just the past but also find through lines on how to create the present. And that's where the Healing in your Hands book is a lovely companion as well. ⁣

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23:13 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, we will share both those, definitely, yeah, yeah, what is it that you're hoping to see happen with Keep Breathing? That might be different from Healing in your Hands, with us being authors and sharing our journeys and sharing what we know and wanting to put it out there in the world. We just want to help people, right? What's the difference between your first book, healing in your Hands, and where you're hoping to keep breathing? ⁣

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23:42 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, Healing in your Hands is a healing journey, and it utilizes the self-havening touch as a mechanism of action to empower an entire suite of neurobiological healing tools, and so that is really about partnering and guiding one's own healing journey. ⁣

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24:06⁣

Through the lens of a lot of the client's case studies that I've worked with and it's so much fun writing it. ⁣

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24:13⁣

Keep breathing, on the other hand, my vision really was to do a trauma-informed version of the Body Keeps the Score by Vistle VanderKohl, because that is a phenomenal book, but it was originally intended for clinicians and it's become the Bible of understanding trauma, for very good reason. ⁣

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24:32⁣

It's beautifully written and extremely well-informed and yet it can be a really tough read for people who have trauma. And to take the Brené Brown framework and integrate it into the science, which then basically became kind of me belting out my own story every step of the way, which Brené does so beautifully, in order to reduce shame and enhance self-connection. So really the vision for Keep Breathing is to have a trauma-informed, safe way for people to learn about what's happening in their mind-body system and multiple different levels, not just traumatic loss and grief, because grief is weird. There's so many weird things about grief and loss that feel crazy-making and I use the word crazy with a deep love and care, because that's a term I've given to myself for going on 40 years now, and so I've partnered with that term because I can feel pretty chaotic, which is what crazy is Like ah, what's happening but to also help people see that they're not alone, yeah, and we need that more than ever. ⁣

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25:43 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

And there's humor in the healing anyway, right. So, whether it's crazy wackadoodle, what's the other term. You say, oh, crazy pants McGee. Crazy pants McGee. I think that's the title of another book. Yeah, that's exactly what I mean Crazy pants McGee. But when we find the humor in the healing, we're kind of taking ourselves out of it in the moment, right, almost like what you said about the flash bulb. The landscape of where our brain is taking us in that moment, making us think like the fender bender that we're going through, the intersection of where we had a fender bender once, is actually happening right now, right, and being able to see oh OK, I'm OK, I'm safe, I'm good. I might be crazy pants McGee at the moment, but just holding space for ourselves in that area I think is really important. ⁣

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26:36 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, and beautifully stated. Because those behavioral responses, those flash bulb memories, they're there through an evolutionary construct. Yeah, and that's, I think, such useful information when our brain is grappling with depression and anxiety or suicidal considerations or just trying to find a way to keep breathing. Fundamentally Because our brain's good at keeping us alive. It's its number one job. It's not so good at reading the instruction manuals that the 21st century has handed to us for a thriving life. ⁣

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27:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

And making things more conversational. Like you said, the body keeps a score is a great book. It is a lot to read, right? And then you think about the books that Brene Brown has put out there which have a little bit more lightheartedness. It's like you're sitting down having a conversation with her, yeah, but you're blending the two in a way that makes this a much more conversational. Yet scientific exploration into a personal psychologist journey, you know, oh, that's pretty good. Actually, I like how I just said that. Oh yeah, that was beautiful. ⁣

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27:53 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

But it's, I'm just going to pause on that. You can have it. ⁣

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27:59 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

You have for the longest time, in every email, many times in some of your posts even have used the term phoenix rising. You know the phoenix rising. Where did you come up with that? And I know that's a real thing, but why is it so closely attached to Kate? ⁣

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28:20 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Way back in my sweet young teenage years I adopted the spirit animal, the cockroach, and context of that is cockroaches can withstand anything. You cut their head off, they will live for two more weeks. I got to go in a deep dive researching cockroaches when I decided to put this in the book because otherwise, like you need to give context for that and of course it hit the cutting room floor. It's not the context of the human background. We'll keep it in here for you. ⁣

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28:52⁣

It's here. Thank you, use the data. They're gritty, intense features and by the time I was 18, I think I'd almost died around nine times and I don't go into depth around all of it, but there's just been a lot. And when I met John, he kind of took a stand against me around the whole concept of the cockroach and said you know, that's not exactly the best framework because they're survivors and I'd always been a huge fan of Greek mythology and mythical creatures and leaning into narrative and story. ⁣

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29:37⁣

And then one day, when I was in the throes of a really, really deep panic attack, I remember feeling that I felt like my body was on fire, which is how panic can often feel and I had severe, debilitating social anxiety. That's how I started in the rat labs, because rats are friendly and they're kind, they don't judge humans are terrifying. And it just started to shift for me the space of I keep going into the flames, I keep feeling like I'm burning up, but I keep coming out of the phoenix, and so that was a totem. I started to try on. And then when I met my now partner, nauz, who I know you've met and hung out with and Irish danced with, we did. ⁣

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30:22 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Who are you kidding? You were the one that was killing it in the Irish dancing. ⁣

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30:28 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

No, no, that was Kim, that was Kim. ⁣

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30:30 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

I don't know, no, anyway, yes, knowing Nauz he's great. ⁣

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30:35 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, on our very first date we were chatting and he shared with me that he had a totem of the phoenix and he survived and been through a lot and growing up in India and religious wars and just being exposed to a lot of really painful, complex things. And it was this bonding moment that we had of you know what? There will be ashes, there will be fires and pain into power, wounds, into wisdom. And then, because I'm just going to keep talking, hilary, do you know what a group of phoenixes is called? I'm not even gonna guess. ⁣

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31:15 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

An odyssey. ⁣

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31:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Oh, oh, I like that you mentioned that in the book I do, I do, I do, and so, as I mean, this was something I'd known for a little while and then, when I met ran, it started doing, havening and moving into this new way of being in the world, and I had phoenixes along the way of my journey, I started noticing this collective community of an odyssey, and from there it's just expanded beyond the haven in community, which is phenomenal and amazing, and to this larger global collective that I walk alongside, and these are all humans who have been in the flames. ⁣

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32:01⁣

I don't know a single human who has done their work that hasn't burned up, and the reason I call it done their work is being a phoenix means you are aware that you burned. Oh yes, and the scars are things you're proud of. ⁣

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32:19 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, the first step to any change is the awareness right. ⁣

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32:23 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah. ⁣

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32:24 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, love that. ⁣

⁣

32:24 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

And rather than being, and the transition to the phoenixes. Wait, I'm not going to be ashamed, I'm not going to judge myself, I'm not going to be stuck in self-living, and if I do get stuck there because we do as humans, I'm also going to lean into my village, my odyssey, you. It's the story of the phoenix. ⁣

⁣

32:50 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Love that and you mentioned that in the beginning of the book when I was first reading your acknowledgements you had. It was somewhat of a dedication to your odyssey, right? Yeah, it is literally. ⁣

⁣

33:03 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

I think it's the actual dedication. It is a dedication. ⁣

⁣

33:06 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

I just didn't want to leave anyone out, if but I remember reading that going oh. I love this. ⁣

⁣

33:11 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, to my village, my odyssey, and we continue to always phoenix up. ⁣

⁣

33:16 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

I love that, kate. The other thing I love that you do mention Nas, because I was going to bring him into this anyway and in that way that you're writing this book. It's really while it's not just about the grief and loss of a partner that you had. There's so much more to the book. But how has it been to be in another relationship, referencing back to an older relationship, and feel vulnerable enough to share it without feeling that you're possibly impacting the relationship you're in now? ⁣

⁣

33:57 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, and it's interesting you highlight that because that's something my mom has consistently brought up ever since I met Nas, which is like don't talk about John, don't. And from the most loving Karen's face, and Nas is very specifically, uniquely him, human. I have no better way to say it. ⁣

⁣

34:18 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

He's pretty cool. ⁣

⁣

34:20 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

He's pretty cool. Yeah, he's pretty cool and from the very you know it's interesting. I told him on her second date that I knew I would never be able to biologically have children. I didn't tell him about John until our 10th date because that, on her second date, was information that he needed to have so he could make a specific choice about whether or not he wanted to continue the relationship. As my body had considerations With John, I was so mindful that I didn't want to be that person that, whatever my brain said that person was. ⁣

⁣

35:06⁣

And when I started telling him about what had happened, he consistently showed up in a space that was just it's a part of your story. I want to know as much as you feel comfortable sharing. And that's been his through line from day one and writing this book. I kept checking with him because he did. Let me write about him in the book and he's deeply, deeply, deeply private. He's one of the most private people I've ever met in my life, and so I kept reading him excerpts that he's in and, in his own cheeky way, sometimes now he'll quote them back to me and be like, don't forget. ⁣

⁣

35:50⁣

Page 300 or 200, you said Sometimes I see more than you think, because literally he said that to me last night. ⁣

⁣

36:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

I love it. That's a good connection. It'll be fun this time Was that Write a book in what It'll be fun, right. ⁣

⁣

36:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

But I think the best way to describe it is he's seen all of these weird universal idiosyncrasies and just been there for all of them, and even this diamond that I wear. Nas gifted me last year, for he gave me two necklaces, one for anniversary, one for Valentine's Day, and this is the engagement ring that John gave me. This is the diamond. And then he gifted me another necklace that has the diamonds that were would have been on my wedding band with John and he was just saying John's always with you, he's your angel, he's always with you, and that's Nas. ⁣

⁣

36:57 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

That's more than just a confident human being. That's someone that gets it. It's someone who realizes that that's part of your story and you're here and you two are together now because it's exactly where you're supposed to be now. Right, it's like that quote, that, what is it? I was just sharing this today with a client. Life will give you whatever experiences are most helpful for the evolution of your consciousness. ⁣

⁣

37:27 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

How do you know it's the right? ⁣

⁣

37:29 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

experience, because you're having it, that's. Eckhart right and that's a good one, because you sit there and you're like why is this happening? And then you think, oh, it's happening, because it's happening. Right, nas came into your life when he did, because he was meant to be there when he's there. So the reference back to something that was is still part of the is, but it's not the. ⁣

⁣

37:54 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Now you know what I'm saying, I do, I do. And John, the week before he died and this is a story that was one of the hardest stories to write in the book he had said I've always known I was going to die young and I was so mad and literally, driving on the freeway, pulled off onto the shoulder of the freeway, was so mad. He wasn't suicidal or anything, he just he's just this dead pan. And John had a certitude when he spoke about certain things. He was a joyful I mean, he's an April Fool's baby and he embodied everything you could imagine about an April Fool's baby, which is why the book coming out in April 2nd is so precious. And he said this and he looked at me and he said and you will find great love and I'll let you know you have to and my inner 13 year olds going, you're going to die alone and I'll die first. And he's just like you will know. ⁣

⁣

38:53 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

When you look back on that now, how does that impact you? Yeah, oh, he, let me know. Yeah, the greater awareness sometimes people have, we don't even realize it, you know. ⁣

⁣

39:04 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, it's a larger universal connection. And the chapter two opens up with a quote from John and do you mind if I read it? Oh please do, it's so poignant. ⁣

⁣

39:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

And while Kate's finding that, just a reminder that keep breathing healing companion toolkit, she's giving that away. That's a free resource that is available to you. It will go beautifully with the book. What a beautiful companion to the book. So we'll have that in the podcast notes as well as links to the book, which this book keep breathing, drops on the 2nd of April. And then there's also the other book, healing in your Hands, that we'll share as well, because it's why not have both right Right, kate the great in your pocket whenever you need her. But that's the goal. ⁣

⁣

39:52 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

That is the goal. If only we could have Kate the great all the time, and on the Dr Ketra dot com, we're cultivating a library of free resources. ⁣

⁣

40:01 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Love that. We'll share all of that the tool quotes there. ⁣

⁣

40:04 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, we have a bunch of neuroplasticity exercises because, you know, healing and the life journey is not just about healing the past Beautiful we also have the opportunity to build the future. So John yes, so the chapter called Tomorrow Begins, and this is starting the morning after I found him and I couldn't save his life. And the quote is and the transformation from flesh to earth. We see this symbolic form of transcendence, suggesting its inevitability, whether we see it as fit. ⁣

⁣

40:41 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

He said that and you remember that he said this when he was like 23. ⁣

⁣

40:47 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

And you, remember that I have a trunk. He and I were. He was also a prolific writer and so we would, he said. For context, I was in the hospital when I was in my early twenties and he sent me a three-ring binder. That was this thick of our remember AOL and Stitmus. Oh yes, of our aim conversations, because texting didn't exist yet. ⁣

⁣

41:12 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

You're dating us and yeah and it was all of our conversations. ⁣

⁣

41:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

I still have that, and so when I started writing the book, I went back through, which was a real journey into just my soul, and that was one of the quotes that I found from a poem that he'd written when he was in his early twenties. ⁣

⁣

41:32 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

It's quite extraordinary to think that the internet could be well contrasting, right, positive and negative, because it allows us to really go into the digital library and Rolodex of things that we might normally have to find in a huge library, and it could take hours and hours, in fact. Suddenly I just went back to. I had a flashball moment, but a good one. ⁣

⁣

42:05 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

And then it was a good one. ⁣

⁣

42:06 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, so when we were at the when we were at the library on the campus of Trinity University in Dublin and that library I remember looking around while we were there. ⁣

⁣

42:15⁣

We went on that tour and thinking how in the world do you find what you need in this place? Back in the day we're talking hundreds of years ago and you know we're of the dewey decibel system age, right, but now everything is just so at our fingertips with the digital age. It really makes us. It gives us, rather, the opportunity to transport ourselves to a place that maybe we have not been to in a very long time. ⁣

⁣

42:51 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah, you know, and reviewing the stories and conversations that we had and I brought a couple into the book Because they're just such in hindsight, going back to your question and how, when I think about what he said, now there's so many flickers to Eckhart Tolle's beautiful point of what was to come and the that quantum physics, human consciousness, integration. ⁣

⁣

43:33 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

With this book being so personal and understanding. Somewhat well, understanding authoring a book, was this one you did completely yourself, or did you find it helpful to have someone? Oh good, no. ⁣

⁣

43:50 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

No, no, no, I had. I was on the phone till 4am sometimes with friends as I was writing it. Rebecca who many people who've been to our trainings and knows Rebecca very well. She's on my lead trainers, also just a chosen sister and family member, a fellow Phoenix. She really incredibly helped me tune some of the harder parts of my family's narrative. I, every step of the way, was in conversation with my parents because we do unpack the family story and the narrative and it was critical to me that I be very respectful of every human's journey. Nobody has intended harm, despite the experiences that occurred. And how do we honor and hold space for that and the ancestral journey of all of that transgenerational trauma? So my parents were a huge voice within all of it. Rebecca really played a critical role in identifying some key ways to present some information that would sponsor the story and honor everybody's unique stories. I'm accusing the word story, but that's what it is. ⁣

⁣

45:04 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

And also I've found that there are. Well, we all have a story right. Every single one of us Not everyone's going to pen a book. Not anyone, not everyone's going to talk about it, and part of the difficulty might be for fear of saying or hurting somebody, because you are sharing your truth, right. ⁣

⁣

45:29 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

And and with John's family. It was so important to me to be respectful Because I could I could tell the story that I lived with him and they were my family for 10 years and during many of those years they were more my family than my own family and to share the information I was sharing. How do I do that in a respectful, kind, loving manner and also not unpack any information that wasn't mine to share? I'm walking that very fine line and I was very grateful that when I was going through that huge binder, one of the things that John repeatedly circled back to was a permission that I didn't know would happen 10, 15 years later of you have to tell your story, and whatever version of my story is a part of that tell it. And that refrain shows up over and over and over again, going all the way back to when I was 20, 21 years old. ⁣

⁣

46:39 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Kate, this is such a gift. It's going to help many and I imagine it continues to help you. Yeah, you know it does. This helps me. Oh well it helps me too. I think we learn from each other. You know, and that's so much of what community connection the Odyssey is Right, so I'm so glad that you brought that brought that up, because that was that was definitely an important piece Before we go. ⁣

⁣

47:09⁣

You know I do this, you know it's coming. I hope you haven't been writing down words too, because I want to do our little rapid fire. As you know, for those who are new to the HIListically Speaking podcast, I do a game called rapid fire at the end, where I write down words that were said by our lovely guests and want to think about the first word that comes to their beautiful brains. So not always positive, not always negative, just is doesn't matter, it's just a word, right? ⁣

⁣

47:43⁣

So here we go. You ready, yes, okay, some of them might be two words, but right, because you've been on before, so I got to change it up for you, all, right? Well, why don't we start with Odyssey? ⁣

⁣

47:58 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Village. ⁣

⁣

48:00 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Breathing. ⁣

⁣

48:02 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Life. ⁣

⁣

48:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Whackadoodle Laugh, because that's our favorite word, amy Superhero. ⁣

⁣

48:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Belonging Hard one. ⁣

⁣

48:19 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Safety Hard one. ⁣

⁣

48:22 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Success Complicated. ⁣

⁣

48:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Oh, you didn't. Okay, you changed it up a little bit. All right, she's throwing me for a loop. Okay, community Odyssey Self love Hard one. Can I keep using the same one you? ⁣

⁣

48:42 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

can do whatever you want. There are no rules, all right, all right you make the rules, just play the game. ⁣

⁣

48:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

That's the rule. Okay, okay, grief. ⁣

⁣

48:54 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Oh, that's a hard one, especially because I'm running this huge workshop and I've been knee deep in all of the science of grief. Grief, it's just, it's a part of life. It needs to be a part of the conversation. Yeah, two words. ⁣

⁣

49:11 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Childhood trauma, heartbreaking. ⁣

⁣

49:15 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Suicidal, the escape hatch. Phoenix Wounds into wisdom baby. ⁣

⁣

49:31 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, we're closing on that, yeah. ⁣

⁣

49:34 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

We're closing on that. Yeah, wounds into wisdom, baby. ⁣

⁣

49:40 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Yeah, we're closing on that Love, that Beautiful. I adore you. ⁣

⁣

49:45 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

I really do. ⁣

⁣

49:49 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

I have not ever had a guest come on more than once, so congratulations, I did not know that. ⁣

⁣

49:54⁣

So thank you. Yes, I mean, I look, you know that this show is my baby. It is my heart's work and I do get a lot of people that want to be in this space and I'm so grateful for that. But to be able to have you back on and share this other part of Dr Kate Truitt to me felt just so natural. Thanks, Right. So I adore you, I admire you. You are such a mentor and such a spark of wisdom and just there's just so many ways I could describe you, Kate, Kate the Great. But thank you for being here, Thank you for everything you were putting out there in the world. ⁣

⁣

50:40⁣

And just a reminder we will share everything in the podcast notes, including Dr Kate Truitt's free resources, the book Keep Breathing, even Healing in your Hands, if you haven't heard about it. But go back and listen to that podcast episode, which was, I think, 101. But I can't be certain of that, but we'll put that in there. Good memory. I know it was in the hundreds, early hundreds. Now we're at 149. So look where we are. Of course you are, and I just want to give you a moment to share some final words with those tuning in. ⁣

⁣

51:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

It's not going to be too different from what I think I wrapped up our last conversation with, which is, Hilary, just be gentle. If we're all a little more gentle with ourselves, it's a skill. It's not frequently something we're taught and it's the game changer. Being human and living in a human world is complicated. When we're soft and we're gentle with ourselves, it opens up entirely new opportunities for connection, for growth and for inspiration. Life really. ⁣

⁣

51:55 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Gentle is such a beautiful word. As you were saying that and just speaking the word. It really. You know how words have feelings, like colors. Just hearing you say the word gentle, it just seemed nurturing and loving. ⁣

⁣

52:12 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Yeah. ⁣

⁣

52:13 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

That's a really beautiful word and leaving with that, I like that. That's where we're going. Good deal, yeah, thank you, kate. ⁣

⁣

52:25 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣

Thank you, joy and an honor. ⁣

⁣

52:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣

Always All right, my sunshine. It's time to be a part of that odyssey that Dr Kate Truitt talks about. Grab a copy of her latest book Keep Breathing a Psychologist's Intimate Journey Through Loss, trauma and Rediscovering Life. This book actually releases on April 2, but there is a link in the podcast notes of this episode to pre-order the book now. You can also download a free companion toolkit, the Keep Breathing Healing Companion Toolkit. It's a free download that Dr Kate is offering a beautiful compliment to her book Keep Breathing. ⁣

⁣

53:02⁣

That is also in the podcast notes as well, in addition to Dr Kate's first book, which is Healing in your Hands a beautiful way to learn more about self-havening and how you can self-regulate to self-heal. We talked about that on episode 109 of the HIListically Speaking Podcast. So I'm not only going to add the book, I'm going to add the podcast episode so you can find that as well. And if you're curious about Havening, if you want to learn more about how Havening can support you on your healing journey, let's hug it out. All you have to do is set up a little time with me and we'll see if that modality aligns with you. ⁣

⁣

53:38⁣

HIListically Speaking is edited by Two Market Media with music by Lipbone Redding and supported by you. So thank you for trusting me with your time and with your mind and, as Dr Kate shared so beautifully, be gentle with yourself and when you need help, the odyssey, the community, they're awaiting you. So know that you are supported, that you are beautiful just the way you are and that I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week. Be well.